6 Friendship Rules To Make New Friends & Keep Old Friends with Kim's BFF Amy Goins

*This transcript was auto-generated*

Kim Gravel: Coming up on the Kim Gravel show.

Amy Goins: Wait, that's not, that's terrible. And that's not what I'm in. That's terrible. That's terrible.

Kim Gravel: Let's pick us up some melons.

Opening Introduction: Let's just go on and spill the tea. This is The Kim Gravel Show. This is one of the realest persons I've ever met in my darn life. You gotta watch this. My mission is to encourage every single woman, we're here to lift y'all up. There's no one more effective than moms. You mess with the bull. You going to get the horns. I need coffee. I need Jesus and I need therapy. If you can bring a smile to people's faces, why would you not? We love our kids. We love our husbands. What a blessing. We're gonna dedicate this to you in finding your superpower. Okay girl. True confidence is knowing who you are and why you're here.

Kim Gravel: Hey y'all, Kim Gravel here, and this is The Kim Gravel Show. And this season we are finding our purpose, finding our calling and leveling up our lives. And we're going to do it together. I got to tell you, this episode is probably our most requested topic that we get via email of any other topic we get.

Zac Miller: The emails we get from people are heartbreaking. Like honestly, the emails we get from people are about being lonely. They are about, I don't have any friends. They're about, I don't know how to make friends. They're about my friends have abandoned me. It's really, really hard out there for people right now.

And I honestly, I'm, I'm not exactly sure why it's maybe harder than it has been in the past. Do you think it's harder than it has been before Kim?

Kim Gravel: I've got, I've got a few, I've got a few opinions about the matter, but I will tell you that, you can have it. There's some tips and tricks. There's some things that you can do to have these long lasting friendships that, that, that we all desire and that you desire.

And I wanted to do this episode, Zac, with what I believe is like one of the most important relationships in my life and definitely my most important friendship. And y'all after this break. I'm bringing my very own BFF, Amy Goins, into the mix, and we're going to talk about how to develop and cultivate best friends.

We'll be right back.

Say what? The Kim Gravel Show just surpassed 1 million downloads and I cannot thank you enough. I'm overwhelmed by your support and your love. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. The response to this show has meant the world to me. And you mean the world to me. Okay, so if you love this, go leave us a five star view on Apple and Spotify and tell a friend to tell a friend, let's grow this community together.

And let's step into our confidence and our calling and level up our lives of right here on the Kim Gravel show. Thank you. Over a million downloads. I can't believe it. Yes. People have fewer close friends than they did in the 1990s. Can you believe that? I can believe it. Well, if you have no close friends at all, trust me, you are not alone.

So many people experience this. I couldn't do a friendship show without, I mean, we haven't called you in yet. You already amen in the thing, so just sit back and we'll re say that. I swear.

Zac Miller: I'm keeping all of this in.

Kim Gravel: Hallelujah. You're not keeping this in. Every second of this. We haven't brought Amy in yet.

So what was I saying before Amy interrupted me? You were saying wind tunnel and her amen?

Zac Miller: She was, she was uh huhing if you have no close friends at all.

Kim Gravel: That's right. That's right. That's right. So if you have no close friends at all, you are not alone. And tonight I can't do the friendship show without bringing it my BFF, Amy Goins.

Are you there?

Amy Goins: I am I on? I'm here. Can I speak now?

Zac Miller: She's scared to talk.

Kim Gravel: Yes, you may speak.

Zac Miller: All right. Hi, Amy.

Amy Goins: I'm here.

Zac Miller: Amy, it's great to see you.

Kim Gravel: Oh my gosh. Y'all, I'm telling you. Amy and I, how long have we been friends, Amy?

Amy Goins: Twenty... I think four. It's 23, 24, something like that.

Kim Gravel: Wow. It feels like forever, doesn't it? .

Zac Miller: So did you meet in the year 2000 ?

Kim Gravel: Oh, wait. Oh, wait a minute. Yeah, I think

we met,

Amy Goins: what year is it? It's 2023. It was 1998, I think.

Kim Gravel: Yeah, I told you we, it's 25 years. I told you. 25.

Zac Miller: What's the 25 year anniversary?

Amy Goins: Silver. Yeah.

Kim Gravel: Yep. 25 years.

Amy Goins: Our silver friendship anniversary.

Zac Miller: I'm checking that. Silver. You're right.

Kim Gravel: Where's my gift? Where is my gift?

Amy Goins: It's in the mail.

Kim Gravel: No, I wanted to bring Amy on because there was this study done and researchers in the University of Virginia wanted to figure out like how influence, how friendships influence how we approach like daily challenges in our life.

So they, listen to this Amy, they placed 34 students at the base of a steep hill. The students who stood alone perceived the hill slant as steeper And thought it would be harder to climb. Listen to this, girl. And the students who were standing next to a friend thought the hill looked easier to climb and gave lower estimates of how steep it was.

Okay? But listen to this. The longer the two friends had known each other, So say it's like our 25 years you and I are staying at the bottom of a hill, the less steep the hill appeared. And so the research shows that friends can change our view of challenging situations. Just the mere presence of a friend in the same room can lower your stress.

Listen to this. And how friends essentially allow us to outsource some of these emotional burdens that we're carrying and y'all we're carrying more emotional mental health burdens than ever before. So it doesn't shock me why everyone is saying I'm having a hard time finding friends. I don't know if it's, I don't know if it's more than ever.

You can't find a friend. I think we need them more than ever now. Do you know what I'm saying? The need is bigger. Like in the 1990s, we were not experiencing the, the challenges. I mean, y'all in 1990, I was how old? I was 18, 19, 18, 18.

Amy Goins: No. Yeah. Yeah. 18. Yeah.

Kim Gravel: Wow. I mean, so it was a really different world. There was no social media.

Yeah. There was no instant connection contact with people via text. I mean, remember you had to dial a phone. Was cell phones in back then?

Zac Miller: I think they had car. Oh, did they have car phones? When was it like They had car phones.

Amy Goins: Car phones were starting to, just starting, yeah.

Kim Gravel: Yes. My dad had a car phone and it was like a big phone.

It was like, Hey, big time Willa dealer. Yeah, it was like, really like . Yeah.

Amy Goins: Well, they first started, not that the show was about car phones, but they first started where you just get it installed in your car, , and then remember, then they,

Kim Gravel: you can tag a bag, walk around with it, with a bag.

So, but anyway. So you'd walk around in your Reebok tennis shoes, downtown New York with a skirt on and a big old phone pad.

Zac Miller: And that big, it had that huge battery on it. And you could like flip down a little and it was like,

Kim Gravel: Oh, I loved it. I loved it. But back then, like I said, I think that we didn't need a friend emotionally and that need.

Amy Goins: That's a good, that's a good point.

Kim Gravel: I think that could be something to that. Okay. So I've never thought of it that way before. Amy and I, we've been friends for 25 years and I have found these little six rules for healthy friendships. And I think, you know what I always say, Amy, to have a best friend, you have to be a best friend.

That's not only to other people, but to yourself as well. There has to be some kind of like self wholeness there before you can attract a whole friendship to you. Yeah. So I would say that's my number one. Jumping off point. Wouldn't you, Amy?

Amy Goins: Oh, for sure. Yeah, you have to, you have to, you, a friendship really is just like any other meaningful relationship that you may have.

And the only, you know, I think probably for most people, the most meaningful relationship you would have would be a spouse. Or significant other, but also as I'm saying that, well, I'm thinking about, you know, with parents and things, but yeah, it's, it's hard work just like any other, any other meaningful relationship you have to put time into it.

You have to have, I think you have to have commonalities. You don't have to be just alike, but I think it's important to have similarities and maybe your core beliefs and things like that. And, you know, I think 1 of the 1 thing about our friendship is that over the 25 years, there have been times where.

It ebbs and flows and what we each need. And, you know, I know you've said that too, and I, you know, sometimes you're the strong one and I'm the one that needs whatever, and then it flip flops. So you kind of go through different stages in a friendship, but.

Kim Gravel: Well, and I, so, so the number one rule is like, you have to have support, trust, and complete honesty.

And I will tell you, we live in such a world that is fake, phony, and hyped. That when, and trust is, is really, really hard to find. And let me tell you this too, friendships are, there's different levels of friendships and there's different seasons of friendships. Like I have many different friends, Amy has many different friends, but they ain't but one Amy.

You know what I'm saying? So, so look at friendships like, layers of cakes. I don't know. I always go to food, girl. I'm always going to sugar. I love a good cake. God, honey, don't you love a good cake? Or think of it like as a layer of an onion, you know, or, you know, something like that, because there's so many different types of friendships.

So when you say I don't have any good friends, or I don't have any friendships, I'm going to, I'm going to say, well, I think you might need to start cultivating some surface relationships and then start from there because to build a deep lasting 25 year ride or die friendship, it takes time. It takes time and it takes a lot of work.

But trust is at the core of that. And I will tell you that I, you have to trust yourself so that you can build trust with someone else. So you got to start with you, but I trust Amy with my. Life with my children's life. I trust Amy with my money. If something happened and I, I mean, I'd give her, I trust her with everything.

Now, Amy, do you feel the same about me?

Amy Goins: Of course. 100%. No, of course I trust you. Yes. With everything. I do.

Kim Gravel: No, I'm just. So, so, so do you agree with me that that's probably like the crux of it? You've got to build that core trust.

Amy Goins: Yes. You definitely have to have trust. I mean, and, and that, like you said though, but that takes time because that takes.

Being in circumstances where you earn that trust, you know, with whether it's, whether it's a quote secret or something you're struggling with internally, or it could be financial or something like that, you have to be in situations where that trust is earned.

Kim Gravel: Do you remember? I remember when I first knew I, okay.

I can trust her. Because Amy will tell you loyalty and trust to me is everything. Like there is this, Kevin Hart has this thing, this little bit he does in his stand up that's on TikTok, talking about friendship. And he says, My bullcrap! is your bullcrap. When we're friends, what I go through, you go through.

And it's to the point with Amy and I, it's not, there's no words. Like we'll be sitting in a meeting and something will go sideways. And this is Amy's eyes. Y'all looking real close right here. This is Amy's eyes. I'm sitting here. This is, I'm Amy. I'm sitting next to Amy, something goes wonky in the meeting, like, you're like, somebody's like, that ain't right.

And Amy does this.

And I know, like, I don't, I don't even, that is like, this is Amy. Shut up, Kim. Shut it down. Shut up. Shut it down, girl. Shut it down. She don't even have to look me dead in my eye. It just has to be a, that is absolute 100 percent trust, but I know the minute Amy was going to be my BFF, I'm going to tell you why.

We were at, you probably don't even remember this Amy, but we were at a women's retreat and I used to wear a big old girdle like from under my breast all the way down to my knees. Do you remember this?

Amy Goins: Yes. A miracle suit.

Kim Gravel: A miracle suit. And Amy would pull up my miracle suit. Every time, well, there was a photographer

Zac Miller: that's already friendship like,

Kim Gravel: well, I can tell you some more stuff.

I won't because it's not appropriate, but I'm going to say this to Amy. I think I smell butt, but anyway, so,

Zac Miller: oh boy, I think I need,

Kim Gravel: We will never tell that story that will never hit this airway. I'm just saying, but Amy knows exactly. There are a few select people out there that knows. I think I smell butt. Anyway. So Amy's pulling up my girdle. Okay. And there was a photographer there clicking pictures. Do you remember this?

Zac Miller: And so at the same time that she's pulling up your girdle.

Kim Gravel: Correct. Correct. I mean,

Zac Miller: where were you?

Kim Gravel: Okay, it was like in a dressing room in the back. We're gonna read. Amy, you want to take this over?

Amy Goins: It was actually a friend slash photographer and she, we had brought her in to get some kind of behind the scenes photos and stuff like that.

And so. I don't think we were in kind of aware that she was taking pictures. So like after the event was over and she uploaded all the photos to like a, like a drop box or something like that. It wasn't drop box, but it was something like that. A shared drive. And so I was going, yeah, shared drive. So I was going through the photos and all of a sudden I get to these pictures of Kim in her girdle.

And I'm like. And so I like, I got on the phone. I was like, get those pictures down right now. She was freaking. Oh my God. I'm so sorry. She wasn't thinking, you know, and probably nobody, but I, I was already, I mean, even though this was a long time, I was already like. Anything out there can be out there, you know, I was like, even if they're on a private share drive, you know, who knows what can happen?

And I was like, get those pictures down right now.

Kim Gravel: But that's a friend. That's, that's, that's a person you can trust. And she's a person that's always thinking about you. And y'all, you cannot have that kind of friendship if you are not giving that kind of friendship. If you are a person that is self absorbed with yourself and you're thinking about yourself first, friendship is sacrifice.

Mm hmm. I have sacrificed financially for Amy. I have sacrificed emotionally for Amy. I have sacrificed, you know, time for Amy. And vice versa, she's done the same for me. Friendship. When I say you have to be a friend to have a friend, I don't mean surface. I mean, if you see your girl in a girdle and it's not appropriate, and you're out there protecting my career 15 years behind, what'd I say, Amy?

Protecting my career before it even began. That's how she's thinking. Okay. Trust, trust, trust, trust is the number one crux. You've got, and I will tell you, and Amy, you said you've got to earn it. You've got to build it. You've got to put something out there. You've got to build it.

Zac Miller: Amy, so when did you know that Kim was going to be, like, your ride or die, your best friend?

Like, when did you know you could trust Kim? Because I want to know that story.

Amy Goins: Well, I think, with me, it's a little bit different. Because Kim is, is naturally, like, I always say she's like a warrior spirit. You know, and she's like, she's a fighter by, you know, her, Is she's always coming out fighting. So, you know, Kim was quote fighting for me from day one.

But for me, I think when I really knew is because Kim. Pushed me out of my comfort zone. And so when we first became friends and, we, we became roommates and I know this is sound so weird, but like I moved across town. It was, I mean, it was still in Atlanta, but it was like across town, like maybe 30 minutes and I like about, I had a panic attack over there.

I mean, it was just across town, but I mean, I know that sounds weird. It was a big deal because I had lived in the same little area. And then we, and then. We, she came in one day, we'd been living together. I don't know, maybe six months or so. And she was like, so I think we're going to move to Memphis. Like what?

Yeah. I mean, I had a hard time moving across town, like 30 minutes across town. And this was now she's like, just very, you know, just flippantly. I think we're going to move to Memphis. So it was those kinds of things that I knew that. I knew that God had brought us together as friends because I needed someone like Kim in my life to push me out.

Kim Gravel: Yeah, but you had to trust me enough to do that, Amy, like you, there had to be something in there because that's what I'm saying. Like you're saying you, you, you trusted that you trusted your own instinct and you trusted me in leading that charge. And are you glad you did that?

Amy Goins: Yes, yes, a hundred percent, but that's what I would say that sometimes people with my personality.

That's more reserved and introverted. We need that person to come along and say, you can do this and you're not going to freak out if you move across town or you're, it's going to be okay. If you move to another state, that's what's, you know, people like I needed someone like you in my life to help me go where I knew, go where I knew I could go.

Kim Gravel: Okay. Okay. I'm going to throw something back at you because. How has that role reversed now? Now who calls who and says, I'm afraid, is this going to happen? Are we going to make it? Who does that now? Who does that now?

You to me.

Amy Goins: Yes.

Kim Gravel: Yeah. So now you're the person who's pushing me going, Girl, we going to do this.

You can do this. Right. It's, do you see what I'm saying? I don't want people to think, Oh, Kim, I need a friend like Kim. See what I'm saying? I don't want people listening to this Amy think, I need somebody like Kim. No. You need to be that person. Listen to me. Listen to me. Get in close. You need to be that warrior.

You need to be that trustworthy friend. You need to be that person who will guard the, the girdle shot. Because I don't want people to mistake and think, Oh, well, Amy, Kim just helps Amy. That's just because she's that way. Now you're the warrior for me. I call Amy four times a week going, Oh God, I can't do this.

I mean, through the book experience stack, I know I'm getting emotional. I need to calm down. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, because I get excited about this because people think, Oh, Kim just brought Amy along and then people who are really smart know that it's, it's a, it's a partnership. Cause now I call Amy. She's like, girl, you got this.

We're going to do this. She just said it like two days ago. Like, I can't, I'm exhausted. I'm just, God doesn't have anything else for me. I mean, I was just saying all the crap she said to me, you know, 20 years ago. So, I don't want people to get it twisted. To be a person that has a loyal friend, you have to become that person.

To yourself and to that person. Would you agree with that?

Amy Goins: 100%. Yes. And that's what I meant when I said at the beginning that we, it's gone back and forth. Sometimes I think at the beginning of our friendship, you know, I was, I was. I don't even know what the right word to say. I just wasn't the same confident person that I am now.

Kim Gravel: Right. But, but I will say this, this, this leads me into, into my next step. So to, to have a friend, you've got to be a friend. You've got to have support and, and, and trust. Number two is you have to listen. Let me tell you something, girl. You had that from day one, boo. You can't have a friendship. Without listening and we talk.

I talk. I can talk a hair off a monkey's butt. I can talk more than anybody. And too often we're talking. And when we listen, we're half hearing. Yes. Friendships require attention and tending to you have to listen. Now watch this. You gotta do it sometimes when you don't want to. Let me tell you something about Amy.

Half the time, let me tell you something though, we've been friends a long time. So now she, she is half listening now.

Amy Goins: You're lying. Whatever you're gonna say, whatever you're gonna say is a lie.

Kim Gravel: Amy, I'll talk to her now and she's like, I'll say hello. She's like, are you there? I'll say, are you there? She's like, oh yeah.

I said, what'd I just say? Uh, so as the friendship goes on, you don't need to have to listen as much, but I will tell you to build that friendship. You have to listen. And Amy, you were the best listener of anybody I've ever known in my entire life.

Amy Goins: I will receive that. I think I'm a good listener. Now I do want to make a point about that because I have a situation right now with another friend that

Kim Gravel: Who?

Amy Goins: I'm, I'm not going to say right now.

Kim Gravel: I know them though, right?

Amy Goins: Yes. I become hesitant to, you know, share and open, be open and transparent with this person because I feel every time I do, they, they come back with a solution or something. You know what I'm saying? And sometimes. A lot of times you don't even want a solution.

You don't want to hear sometimes you just, you just talk, you just need somebody just to, like you said, just listen and go, I hate that you're going through that. I'm here for you. I don't, I don't want to hear one, two, three steps of how I need to get out of what I'm in. Now, every time now, sometimes you need that and you know, but, but sometimes you just need to.

That. You just need to say what's on your heart, what's on your mind, whatever.

Kim Gravel: Right. You know? You just need to listen.

Amy Goins: So I love what you said about listening, yeah.

Kim Gravel: There's something that draws people to you when you're a good listener. Yeah. All these steps I'm telling you about is how you almost court a good friendship.

Mm. So I'm giving you steps not to, not to, tell you what to do, but I'm going to tell you what to do a little bit here because there's, there's just like any other relationship, people are drawn to certain type of people and you've got to become that person to have that person in your life. That's why I'll keep going back to that.

So, so be a practice good listening. And the, and the right people will come to you. They'll be drawn to you. You've got to ditch the judgment. You do not have to approve or like all of your friends choices. You know, good friends will accept your choices no matter what. Now I'm not saying you don't need to forewarn them.

Don't do that. Do not do that. I mean, that's not being a good friend. I'm just saying the judgment that we have. For people, this day in time is the biggest joke I've ever seen in my entire life. There is not a person on this planet that should be judging anyone in this world. We are all fallen. We are all broke, low down, can't get out of a rainstorm.

Every single one of us makes mistakes. More than we even share with others. And you know what I'm talking about. So there's no sense in judging anyone because y'all we're going to make mistakes. I can't tell you how many mistakes Amy and I have made in our lives and in our friendship. I'm an angry texter.

Amy Goins: Oh my gosh.

Zac Miller: How, wait, I have a question. Amy, how often do you get like text storms from Kim? Like how often does that happen?

Amy Goins: Every day, every day.

Kim Gravel: That's a lie. That's not every day. And I can show. I've got receipts, baby.

Amy Goins: Oh God. This is, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm getting, I'm, I'm, I'm starting to shake. I'm starting to shake because you have to understand.

I hate texting. Like to me. And I, I'm really trying to

Kim Gravel: wait a minute, I hate calling you and being in a wind tunnel every day on a meeting, but I have to do it.

Amy Goins: Well, I don't know what to tell you about a wind tunnel because I, I, I, I...

Zac Miller: Amy, you sound great. You sound...

Kim Gravel: Go ahead.

Amy Goins: I don't want to hear about a wind tunnel in my life anyway. To me, was created to be like, yes, no, that's, that's my idea of what text was created for.

Zac Miller: Wait, can I just do a quick sidebar on this?

Just real quick. When texting started, like, and we were all on the little flip phones or whatever, and you had to hit the number. I didn't do that. I had to text like that. Three key twice in order to get the letter. Did you feel like this is never going to be a thing? Like texting is not going to be a thing.

Kim Gravel: Not that way. We're so off topic here.

Amy Goins: Right hand to God. I remember this. I remember seeing and I've tried to find it on the internet and I can't find it anywhere, but I know because I saw it. Saturday Night Live did a sketch about texting before texting became a thing and they were making fun of it. I remember cause I remember Andy Sandberg was in it and he was coming down an escalator and he was, and they were, the whole skit was making fun of texting.

I've seen it. I promise it's there. If anybody out there else has seen that. Please connect with me because I'll know I'm not crazy.

Kim Gravel: Get back to ditch the judgment. Okay.

Amy Goins: Sorry. So, yeah, so Kim is an excessive texter. Like she texts like everything. I mean, like, good, bad, yeah. Okay. So go back to, what'd you say?

You were an angry texter. I think there needs to be a support group. Hi, I'm Kim and I'm an angry texter, so go ahead.

Kim Gravel: This is the thing. I am, believe it or not, I'm very hot tempered. Now, I have been praying about it for decades, and God has really, really worked me through the whole thing.

When Amy says I'm a warrior, she ain't lying. So, if there's ever an apocalypse, and we're all left behind, it's a zombie attack, call me. I got your back, because I will go toe to toe. We're going to Kansas. 100. I mean, I'm your girl, okay? So. Now when we all get to heaven, you might not want to live next door to me.

I might pop off some, so you might want to live two or three doors down. But, so I'll, I'll do angry text to Amy. And the thing about Amy and I's friendship that's so fantastic is that we argue hard. You don't even know, because what you don't know about me is I'm an angry texter and Amy's a stubborn mule.

So it's like, it's, it's, we're both very strong and we exhibit those strengths in very different ways. And when I say, That has been the best parts of our friendship, have been the arguments, the knockdown, dragout fights. We just had one. Well, we were gonna

Amy Goins: I was gonna say that I remembered my mistake. Yeah.

Kim Gravel: What? What was your mistake? I can't remember.

Amy Goins: It was, it's a small surface when I'm there's lots of bigger ones, believe me. But I can't just think of them right now. But the other day when you texted me and you were straight, you had just come home from the TSV and you were stressed out. And you remember when I said,

Kim Gravel: oh my gosh, and it's like this.

Amy Goins: I was a little snippy back at you.

Kim Gravel: Lemme just tell you about Amy. Amy, and I'll say this about my husband too. And, and, and a lot of people we're all like this. We, when we are having these moments, you think about how it affects you first and then you react in that way. Amy and, and Amy and I got in a little scuffle and I was like, I started the angry text rant.

I will never forget this. I was on the side of the road because Travis's car had a flat tire and I had to go pick him up. Swear it's always me. And so I, and so I was asking Amy to do me a favor. Well, she popped off. And I was like, that was it. All I needed for her was to raise her voice. It was on like Donkey Kong.

So I popped off. I hung up. And I started texting, let me tell you, angry text. And then I thought, I thought to myself, this is a true story. I thought to myself, no, well, not quick, not right. Cause I kept it going about an hour or two. And at the end, you're like, Kim, I'm so sorry. I shouldn't have popped off at you.

You've got a lot of stress. And I thought, well, I could just say, okay, I forgive you, but I'm gonna let it slip. I'm not gonna do that.

I said, no, I'm not gonna do it. You'll get that tomorrow morning. So I went to bed, well and then she went on to sleep because that's how Amy could sleep to a you know, hail storm. And I start, I kept on texting them to tell you something. I kept on texting them and the next morning I get a text, good morning sunshine, it's a little sunshine.

I was like, good morning, I'm over it. So look, I say all that to say

Amy Goins: every morning. Wait, I got to say this though. Real quick. Every morning, I turn over my phone. I'm like, how many texts am I going to find? I'm like, Oh, every morning. Sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt your.

Kim Gravel: No, I mean, I have said things like, I've like told Amy, our friendship is over.

I can't believe we've been friends this long. I mean, there's so many things we have said to one another. That is just fantastical if it was on film, but there's never any judgment. Amy does not judge my angry texting. We've had to have a mediator once. Do you remember Alice was our mediator? So I'm just saying like, we, we are so healthy in the fact that we.

Have at it, but there's never any judgment and I'm telling y'all that is so important. Always give your friends the benefit of the doubt, even if they fail you, even if they hurt you, even if they don't live up to all the expectation you think they should have never judge always, always. Forgive and give them the benefit of the doubt and sometimes that takes sacrifice.

Well, God, a lot of times that takes sacrifice. All the time. Yeah. Okay. Don't talk behind your friends back. Let me tell you something. Gossip is dangerous. Okay. And a lot of times us women. Use it to cement like our social standing or our, or, or, or putting the net out to see if there's a couple of other friends we can nab.

Don't do that. I talk behind Amy's back all the time to my family and she does the same to me. But that isn't, that's the truth. So forget about it.

Zac Miller: Forget everything you just said. Just throw that out.

Kim Gravel: I've got a preface, but that is still in the family. Everybody's friends. And what happens is, Amy calls my mother, talks about me, and then mom calls me, talk about Amy.

And then Allison calls my mom to talk about me and Amy. And then... Your dad! Don't forget your dad! My dad said the other day, What did he say about you, Amy? I swear he was... The girl's exercising too much, Kim. I said, dad, he said, Jason, she's going to pull something or do something. It's too much. And I said, well, I said, he said, he said, I said, you tell her.

He goes, you tell her, you tell her. I said it. And he said, I'm going to tell you something else. He said, his name, he lives in her hearings. I said, dad, you've lost George. That's the problem. He said, I called her name three times. She didn't look at me. So we all talk bad about each other. But Amy would never go and talk bad about me to anybody, ever.

Amy Goins: No.

Kim Gravel: She'd smack me around a little bit, but she would never deny my character or talk bad. Don't do that. Don't do that. Now, I talk bad about Amy every Saturday night on our show just because it's for her own good. Now this, this next one, I was reading all these rules. It says respect your friends and their boundaries.

I don't agree with that at all. Do you agree with that Amy?

Zac Miller: No. Wait, wait, second follow up question. Do you wish Kim agreed with that?

Amy Goins: I wanna hear what she has to say about it.

Kim Gravel: I just, I just think to have the friendship and I think it's good for for surface friendships and friendships that have, you know, that are more acquaintance friendships. But to develop a friendship like Amy and I have, there can be no boundaries.

Amy Goins: Yeah, I think I would say that, of course, you've got things that everybody would agree to, like you don't, you know, there are certain boundaries of like humanness or whatever. What is that? What is that? What is that? Like not hitting people or something like that,

Kim Gravel: you know, you've hit me several times. I've never hit you.

Amy Goins: You've hit me before.

Kim Gravel: Never, that's a lie. You are lying on this podcast. I have never hit you. You've hit me ever. You hit me all the time. Amy Goins all the time.

Amy Goins: I do get a little, I do. I hit don't, I don't punch.

Kim Gravel: There is no boundaries. You slap. You slapped me upside my arm or knocked me in the arm. Them bony knuckles? Yes, you do. I've never done that to you. I verbally slapped you around, but I've never hit you.

Amy Goins: Yeah, I don't remember a time you've hit me.

Kim Gravel: Thank you. You just wanted to cover your own tracks.

Zac Miller: Amy's like, I have never remembered a time that you've hit me again.

Amy Goins: Yeah, I haven't remembered.

Kim Gravel: Everything is fine.

Zac Miller: Amy, Amy, blink twice if you need help. Amy, if you need help, blink twice. Okay, just, it's okay.

Kim Gravel: Shut up, Zac. To have these kind of friendships like Amy and I have. And I think that people are drawn to our friendship, Amy, is because we really, it is truly, there is no boundaries. There's no boundaries. Would you say there's any boundaries with our friendship? No. Mm mm. I just think to have a really strong connection that is, is What you guys are seeking, you gotta, you gotta lay it out there.

You've got to be your true self. And you, you have to say the tough things and you have to receive the tough things and you have to, that's true love. And

Amy Goins: that's vulnerability. That's where the vulnerability comes in, I think, because if there's, you have to, Be vulnerable to, to put it out there. And like you said, to have no boundaries to, there's nothing off limits to, to talk about or to, you know, deal with.

Kim Gravel: You have to, and you have to, and it's hard, it's hard work to do that. The last one I want to talk about is, forgive. Forgive. Seek forgiveness when you screw up. Forgive people or your friends who, when they do you wrong. Expect more of yourself and from others. Relationships are, they're never going to give you a hundred percent of what you need.

And when you're always looking outside of yourself or outside of your, You know, faith to have that person fulfill that need that you have that's never going to happen. And, and I always say, don't look at the need a friend can fill in you, look in a need that you can fulfill in a friend. It's always about giving.

It's not about taking. Always. And it's exhausting and it's tired. And like Amy said at the beginning, it takes a lot. Of work, a lot of work, but for those of you who, who say, who's sending these emails saying, I don't have a friend, I want to tell you, I believe they're good friends out there for you.

Don't you, Amy?

Amy Goins: Oh, yeah, absolutely. But I think, I think, like you said, I think you have to just, I think the number one, the first one point of your, of your points, the be a friend, you've got to be a friend to have a friend. I think that's where a good place to start.

Kim Gravel: Start there. Start listening. Start opening yourself up.

Start being vulnerable. Start, start in these small little moments and watch those friendships come to you and then cultivate them. It takes a long time. Amy and I have been friends for 25 years now. I'm an all in person. Okay? So I decided, okay, I prayed for my very best friend. My whole life since I was a little girl in my room with my Sean Cassidy poster singing to my Donny and Marie Osmond records.

And, when I, when Amy and I met each other, I decided what this is, this is her, okay, we're doing it. And I drug her kicking and screaming. Cause Amy was never, she doesn't let a lot of people in. And I just remember she would be exhausted at the end of the night. Sometimes at our talks and lived, she just like.

I just can't anymore. I'm just a sauce. I can't do this anymore because it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. You're laughing a little too hard, redhead.

Amy Goins: But it's worth it. It's worth it though. It's worth it to put in the, to the hard work because I'm, I'm finding more and more and the older I get that. The friendship that you and I share is, is very rare. And, and I think everybody wants that.

Everybody wants that die hard, ride or die friend.

Kim Gravel: Can everyone have it, Amy?

Amy Goins: Yes. I believe everybody can have it for sure.

Kim Gravel: There you go. There you go. All right, we always close every episode with rapid fire. Rapid fire questions. Now, when you say rapid fire to Amy, that means two and a half minutes after you've asked the question.

Amy Goins: I know. I'm so not good at rapid fire. Amy, you got this.

Zac Miller: I feel good about this. You can do it. You can do it.

Amy Goins: Okay, I'm gonna do my best.

Kim Gravel: You got this, girl. I believe. Okay. I believe. I got it. Okay. If you could create a slogan for your life, what would it be?

Amy Goins: Uh, things can change.

Zac Miller: What? Wait.

Amy Goins: That's not, that's terrible. And that's not what I meant. That's terrible.

Kim Gravel: That's terrible. Let's pick something else. So that's not good. I just peed a little bit on myself.

Zac Miller: That was too honest, Amy. That was like,

Kim Gravel: things can change. No, it should be things are going to change. They're going to change.

Amy Goins: Oh God. No. Don't. Anybody can change.

Kim Gravel: Okay. Okay. That's good.

Zac Miller: Okay. Wait. Now Kim. Now Kim.

Kim Gravel: No, don't, don't, don't take up for her. Stand in first. She's, she's tough. Trust me. That's hilarious. That was, that's staying in and it made my whole day. Okay, second question.

My, if you could create a slogan for my life, what would it be? .

Amy Goins: Oh my gosh. Oh God. Come on y'all. If you can, for Kim's life, come on, let's get em.

Kim Gravel: All right, all right.

Come back. Come back.

Amy Goins: That's a little bit of an inside joke. Do you remember that? Kevin Nashville.

Kim Gravel: Do it. Do it again. Come on. Let's get em. All right. This is fantastic. This is gold. What is one friend tradition we have? Girl, we got

Amy Goins: many. I know, um. When we lived on the other side of town, Kim and I would go shopping every Saturday.

Every Saturday morning we would go shopping, and we'd always go to North Point Mall in Alpharetta, Georgia. And we would always go into the mall through Macy's and the, this one entrance. And I swear to you, Macy's, that smell right now. I can smell it right now. It makes it, it gives me all those visions of us going shopping every Saturday.

Smell that, that Macy's smell. All that. Is that a tradition?

Kim Gravel: That's fantastic. We have so many. That's just fantastic.

Zac Miller: Okay. Do you know that, that smell is most connected to memory?

Amy Goins: Oh my gosh.

Kim Gravel: Yup. Yup. And I'm going to leave you. I think I smell butt. That's all I'm going to say. Okay. Here we go.

What is the most outrageous fashion trend you ever followed?

Amy Goins: I ever followed? Uh huh. Outrageous fashion trend I ever followed. Um.

Kim Gravel: Oh God, this is torture.

Amy Goins: I don't even know what it is. Probably like, I'm not very outrageous.

Probably, um.

Kim Gravel: I've got one for you. Amy used to wear those jumpers. When I met her, she would wear these jumpers.

Amy Goins: Oh, yes. Oh my gosh. That was the late 90s. Who remembers those? Oh, the jumpers.

Zac Miller: Is that like an adult onesie?

Kim Gravel: With the big prairie collar. Prairie collar. Yeah. It was not good. It was a trend though.

That was a trend.

Amy Goins: It was a big trend. But looking back, I'm like, why? Why did that happen?

Kim Gravel: What was, when you were young, what was one of the most outrageous things that happened to you? I know. This is sad that I can answer your rapid fire question.

Amy Goins: No, no, no. Okay. Outrageous. Outrageous. That happened to me.

Oh my God. Well, I got hit by a car.

Kim Gravel: Thank you. I was going to say you got hit by a car.

Zac Miller: You got hit by a car? Are you okay? Amy.

Kim Gravel: No. No, she is not.

Zac Miller: What happened?

Amy Goins: I did. I got hit by a car. Do you want to hear the story? I'll make it real quick. Yeah. So we were at, it was when I was like, probably like, 8 or 9 and we were and, you know, we lived in a neighborhood and so we would play in the street of, you know, with the neighbors and there was kind of like a hill and the cars would come up over the hill.

And so we were playing in the street. And so, and we were in this right? And so he said cars coming. And so it was like scattered. And so I started running to the other, the neighbor's house on the other side. And for some reason, I don't know why I was like. No, I want to run to my yard. So I stopped and turned around to run to the other side of the street and a car hit me and I don't.

And what's so funny is I don't remember the car hitting me. I remember running across the street and then the next thing I know I'm sitting on the ground in front of the car, just going, I was like sitting, I was like sitting and just sitting there going, how did I get down here? What happened?

And everybody's like freaking out. Yeah.

Kim Gravel: Oh my God. Yeah. That's one of the most outrageous things. Have you ever been caught in an embarrassing situation? Share the details. I know this one too. And I didn't even write these rapid fire.

Amy Goins: Embarrassing situation. I'm sure I have. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. This is so.

Oh, I've got a bunch. Cause I, okay, Zac, this is becoming not very rapid, but I'm a klutz and so I fall down a lot.

Zac Miller: Okay. Let's continue.

Amy Goins: Okay, so when we lived in Nashville, I worked at Forefront Records, a record company. I mean, that's a pretty cool job, right? I was ready to walk down the stairs and there was two of the, like, the executives.

Walking, but coming up behind me and I just like slipped and then like two, like two nights later we were at an event for the record company where we were, we were handing out like these things that was like, and it was at like a baseball stadium. So it was like metal bleachers and I missed the stairs.

Zac Miller: Oh my gosh.

Kim Gravel: There's so many. Oh my God. There's so many.

Amy Goins: I was like, what if my boss says, the two men that saw me fall in the office saw, what if they saw me fall again? They're like, this girl can't walk.

Kim Gravel: We laughed so hard about that. Okay. All right. All right. We got to pull it together. God, it's going to be an hour long thing.

Zac Miller: It's, yeah, we're going up for an hour.

Kim Gravel: If you could trade places with me for a day, what would you do?

Amy Goins: Oh, God. What would I do? This is torture. This is torture.

I don't know. That's a hard one. If I trade places with you, would I be you?

Zac Miller: Yeah. Yeah, it's like a freaky Friday. If you freaky Friday, Kim.

Amy Goins: I would still be me.

Kim Gravel: I'm moving on. Who is your celebrity crush? I'm moving on. We're cutting the question right now.

Amy Goins: I would say it's, Uhtred son of Uhtred.

Kim Gravel: Oh God. Yes, Jesus.

Amy Goins: Um, the last kingdom and he don't even have to,

Kim Gravel: he don't even have to bathe. Dirty fingers and all right. Okay.

Amy Goins: I want to say it's Uhtred, not the actor.

Kim Gravel: It's Uhtred. Son of Uhtred. Okay. All right. What do you hope for our friendship in the future?

Amy Goins: I want us to see us continue to succeed in our business. I'd love to see us do some. Like not charity work together, but like meaningful work, you know, continue to do meaningful work in, in, in what we're doing.

Kim Gravel: Okay. You don't want to be one of them old, like 83 year old women that are out, you know, skydiving.

I saw that today. There was two like, Oh, okay. All right. There we go.

Amy Goins: I don't want to skydive. I would like to like, if, if, sorry, if, if like after Travis died,

I think it'd be good if we got us two little, little cottages, like little side by side, you know, and I think I, I would want my own house.

Kim Gravel: Oh God, I can't live with you again. There's no way you're too

Amy Goins: But I wouldn't mind living side by side, like a little cottage.

Kim Gravel: Amy, Amy chews loud. She slams cabinet doors.

I mean, it's, I can't do it.

Amy Goins: You have misophonia.

Kim Gravel: Uh huh, I do. Okay, what was your first impression of me? Tell.

Amy Goins: My very first impression of you was, before I met you, was I thought you were beautiful. I thought you looked like Princess Di. That's the truth. Okay, but...

I did. I thought you, because remember I saw you at church and I saw you sitting down there and I thought you looked like Princess Di. And I did think... That you were going to be stuck up. You are nothing like I thought you were going to be. And that was my own, whatever, insecurity.

Kim Gravel: That was your judgment.

That was your judgment.

Amy Goins: I just said that. I just said that. I just said that. So, I thought you were going to be, you know, uppity cause you look so regal. You look so like, you look like a princess. I mean, of course I had to think you were going to be stuck up and like. Really hootie tootie.

And then can I tell the rest? But then when I did actually meet you, you came around the corner and you didn't have a stick of makeup, makeup on. And I don't think you had a bra on and you had on t shirt and shorts and you came on, Hey, you know, and I was like, You're nothing like, so, and I liked you immediately.

Kim Gravel: After that first impression. Well, that's good. Very honest. That was very honest of you. Okay. Last question. If you had the power to invent a new word, what would it be? And what would it mean?

Amy Goins: Um, I think a new word, I don't really want a new word. I like the words that are out there.

Zac Miller: All right. And that's the show. Thanks for listening and watching.

Kim Gravel: Thank you for joining Amy. I love you, girl. Thank you for being on the Friendship Show.

Amy Goins: I failed Rapid Fire. I failed. I'm so bad.

Kim Gravel: I want to say this too. We, as much as we talk deep and serious, we have such silly, crazy things that we do. And I'm going to leave Amy with this one last thing.

I think, I smell butt. Thanks, Amy.

Zac Miller: Can I name the episode that?

Kim Gravel: I think it's my phone. Bye, Amy. I'll call, I'll text you on the way home. I'll call you on the way home. Okay, bye.

Oh, Zac. I hope somebody got something out of that. I really do. I, I, you know, Amy and I get caught up in our own little world, but it is true about friendship. And I know people are desperate for good friends and it, and I truly believe that, they're out there for you. They're out there for you. And I think people are longing for the deep, deep connection.

Don't you?

Zac Miller: Oh, 100%. I mean, here's the thing about Amy and you though, and I really do, cause your friendship is so different and so much deeper than honestly anyone I've ever met because you, you're friends, you work together, you're business partners, you vacation together, you, like, she's just part of

Kim Gravel: Yeah, but we always haven't done that.

We've always, I mean, Amy and I worked separate careers for decades. But you know what? We were always working towards something together. But I, I think that, that it, my relationship with Amy takes as much work as my marriage takes.

Zac Miller: That's funny you say that. Okay, so wait, can I just tell a little story?

So when like, I don't know, like six months ago, eight months ago, whenever I was there, you know, a couple of times ago, and I was in Atlanta and I was meeting Travis for something like at your house. I don't know why I was at your house. And Travis was like, Oh yeah, I'll be there like in five minutes.

Like I'm just walking Amy's dog. And I just, and It's something about that moment where it just was like, it felt like everyone in the family, it was just all one big family, right? It was like Travis. And he didn't say it in a way that was like, he was upset about it. He wasn't, it was just something that he had to do.

It's like, I got to put my pants on. I got to walk Amy's dog. I got to do, you know, eat food, whatever. It was all the same. And it was just, I, There was a moment really that I had in that moment where I was like, this is special,

Kim Gravel: but it's special because we've made it that way. That's my point, right? Where there's not some magical elixir or, I'm not some magical per person.

Amy's not a magical person. That's why I asked her the question, do you think everyone can have what we have? Is she said, yes. If you are willing to do what you have to do, it's a lot of hard work, and I'm telling you. People, we, we, we look at relationships. We look at romantic relationships on Netflix or on streaming or, you know, and we think it's just this perfect, there's nothing about relationships.

That's easy. Nothing. And, but every bit of the work, the sacrifice, the arguing, the. The realness, the fights, the makeups, everything about it is worth it, okay? And you can't hold grudges. You've got to forgive. You have to be a person that's not judgmental. Even if you don't agree with what they're doing. I'm not saying, you know, don't confront, don't share your opinions.

That's what I'm talking about. There's, there's boundaries, of course, in healthy relationships in certain circumstances, but when it comes to having true best friend, and I don't know anybody that doesn't want a best friend, especially women, especially women, and I'm going to say it is vital for you women watching this, that you have your girlfriends and your friendships.

Everybody wants the sex in the city friendships. Everybody wants that. You know, everybody wants the Galen Oprahs, right? And, and I just know it takes a long time. And there are certain things that your character has to be, and in the way you love yourself, and the way you're a friend to yourself, and the way that you are and treat yourself, is a direct relation of what kind of friend you're going to be.

Zac Miller: Yeah, because it starts with you. It's a reflection of you, you are, what you put out is what you get back in everything.

Kim Gravel: And so everybody who's sent emails to us, I'm going to tell you, first of all, you have a friend right here and me and Zac, you have a friend in this show. We're always here, to encourage you, to lift you up, to hold you accountable, to, to help you, through tough times because y'all have done that for us.

No one is better than anyone. We all need each other to thrive and survive. And so if you're needing that friend, email us, share with us. There's no judgment here. Everything here is we believe in you. Because you believe in us, we are the friend to you because you have been such good friends to us. And so just remember at the end of the day, you're not alone.

We're all in this together and to have a friend, you gotta be a friend. All right. We love you. In fact, tell people about the podcast, to share it with people and, be encouraged this week. Know that, get out there and make a few new friends. Try these tips and tricks out about how to build friendships and let us know how it works out for you.

Until next time, I'm Kim. I'm Zac. And we love you.

Zac Miller: Bye.

Kim Gravel: Bye.

Yo, now you gon go crazy on me? No, I just gave you the little intro. Oh yeah. That, go back. Why did you get rid of my stuff? Hold on. Just, I'm going back to my question. Just, just stay, you're getting, you're getting delete happy now. So this is the,

Zac Miller: we're talking the way only friends can, Kim, right?

Kim Gravel: Oh my God, Amy, I swear.

I knew rapid fire for her was going to be like,

Amy Goins: I'm not a rapid fire person.

Kim Gravel: The Kim Gravel Show is produced and edited by Zac Miller at Uncommon Audio. Our associate producer is Kathleen Grant, the Brunette Exec. Production help from Emily Bredin and Sara Noto.

Our cover art is designed by Sanaz Huber at Memarian Creative and Mike Kligerman Edits the show and a special thanks to the team at QVC. Head over to kimgravelshow.com and sign up for our mailing list. Again, we can't do this without you, so thank you for listening, and we love you.