Embracing Vulnerability: Nancy French's Inspiring Journey

*This transcript was auto-generated*

Kim Gravel: This episode is sponsored by your family group chat. What group chatter type are you? Are you the oversharer who tells all your loved ones way too much about your intimate life? Or the conspiracy theorist who shares the weird social media thing that you didn't bother to even fully read in the first place?

Or the inadvertently passive aggressive texter who still thinks that the eggplant emoji means food? Or are you like my parents? You're the boomer who always is sharing scripture quotes in response to every single message. God is good, y'all. He's good. I'm sure one of you fits one of those things I talked about, and God knows I do love my family chat, y'all.

I just hope it never gets leaked. Let's just get on with the show.

Welcome, my dear friend, Nancy French. 

My dear friend, Nancy French is on the show this week, y'all. She is a five time New York Times bestselling author and a ghost writer. She's written books with celebrities, politicians, and with yours truly. Uh huh. My book. She did. Her new memoir is called Ghosted, An American Story. It was just released yesterday, and I'm telling you, do not wait.

Go run, go get this book. And she's also got another book coming out next week called The After Party. The woman is prolific with her writing. I'm telling you, super talented. This woman is a powerhouse. What can I say? I mean, she's a dear friend. I consider her one of my best friends. Soul sisters. And she's doing all of this writing while in full treatment for cancer. Y'all welcome. My dear friend, Nancy French.

Nancy French: Yes, this is amazing. No one's ever made something like that for me. 

Kim Gravel: This is you should have had it a long time ago, girl. I'm so glad you're here. I cannot wait to tell everybody about you. 

Nancy French: Oh, so much for having me. This is so fun. Do I have to write books to talk to you, though? 

Kim Gravel: It seems like that's what's happening.

So we need to get another book. We need to get another book going quickly, but I said, you're too busy. I know. I miss you so much though. We had so much fun writing your book, Nancy. I think, I think we traumatized Nancy a little bit with our family though. 

Zac Miller: I believe that just for, can I just say like, yeah, I believe that a hundred percent.

Nancy French: Yeah. No, it wasn't. I did cry. Do you remember that? I cried after I hung out with your family. We went to lunch and we got in the car and you were driving me back. 

Kim Gravel: Tell people why. Tell people why. Don't say it's like, Oh Lord, Kim, they beat her up or something. 

Nancy French: There's something so beautiful about your family.

 The way that you guys interact, the, the bond that you have, the sort of impertinent way that you interact with each other. Like it's just such a wealth of love that you can just say anything. And you guys being together for that lunch, I think we were together for like a couple of hours at that lunch and I got in the car and I just cried.

And I said, it's beautiful. I thought it was beautiful. It wasn't, yeah, it wasn't negative. It was sweet. 

Kim Gravel: But think about it, Nancy. Anybody that comes into our family, they immediately get like on Prozac or Lexapro or something, Xanax. Yeah. So I'm glad you cried. I'm just glad you cried and released and didn't have to be medicated.

Now, okay, but we're here to talk about you today because remember when we were talking about your memoir, I remember when we were writing, Collecting Confidence, We would, we would have these hour long conversations and I just, I just thought you got me and you saw me and after hearing a little bit of your story, I know why I mean, girl, your memoir is a movie waiting to be made.

People have no idea. Y'all go get this book. How long did it take you to write it? And how long has this been on your heart to write this? Ghosted an American story. 

Nancy French: Well, you know, Kim, and we wrote your book, I think we did it relatively quickly. 

Kim Gravel: We, we did, we had to, we were on a deadline. 

Nancy French: Yeah. And so we were sort of talking all the time.

So I thought that when I got my own book deal that I would just whip it out. And I, but I, I wrote one book. I mean, I have, like several of my celebrity clients have had New York Times bestsellers and one of 'em I wrote in 24 days, it's like insane. So I thought I could write it really quickly, but it took me forever because.

There's so much drama and challenges and, you know, it's hard to know what to share. It was really hard. I think I pulled it out, but it was hard. 

Kim Gravel: When you say it's an American story, you've got to tell everybody, give us, don't give the whole story away, but you've got to give us some nuggets because you have done, you have been through so much trauma in your life.

And when I say you are so brave to write it fully, can you give us a little background, Nancy, of what an American story is? 

Nancy French: Yeah, my family comes from Montego Mountain, which is in the foothills of the Appalachians. And so I sort of grew up in a hillbilly family. But with, you know, in it, but not on the mountain.

So I had the hillbilly sensitivities, but I was, I was raised off the mountain. So I didn't really have that experience. What's the difference? What's the difference? Well, you know, there are hillbillies and there are rednecks. 

Kim Gravel: Now, what is a hillbilly? What is a hillbilly? Now listen, a lot of people want to know these definitions because we throw around hillbilly, redneck, all of that.

Even white trash. I mean, we've thrown that around a little time. So tell us what that, like, give us the definition of a hillbilly. 

Nancy French: Okay. Well, I've been accused of being all three and there's probably truth in all of that. 

Kim Gravel: Me too. Me too. Don't forget country bumpkin. Don't forget country bumpkin. 

Nancy French: Right. Well, yeah.

It's like people underestimate you. But on the mountain, the hillbilly family that I have, they were strong. They had fortitude. They didn't really care what other people thought. So there wasn't any posturing. They just what were what they were. Mm-Hmm. And I differentiate that from like more of the redneck mentality, where that's more in your face.

It's like, this is what I am, and you have to deal with it. Hillbillies just don't care. And so I sort of grew up, you know, in a small rural town and I had that. So it was sort of, it's just an interesting upbringing. But in that small rural town, I was abused in the context of church. I got set off on a bad path, Kim, and it resulted in just a lot of bad romantic decisions.

And so I sort of talk about all that. Okay, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Oh man. I just dated the wrong guys. 

Kim Gravel: Hey. You know that. Okay, just pause everybody because everybody's right now listening and going, Oh yeah, that Steve, I shouldn't have gone out with Brant. I mean, yeah, I think we've all got stories there.

Nancy French: I think I know your list by heart. 

Kim Gravel: Let's just move on. 

Zac Miller: No, let's dig into that. Let's dig into that. 

Kim Gravel: That is the behind the American story. That's, that's really the next book for you. Okay. No, but seriously, so you may drive on that. Oh Lord have mercy. Making out in the back of a car. Okay, anyway. So, you had a, when you say abuse, break it down to me what you mean by abuse.

Nancy French: Yeah, so I went to Kim, this is so this is, this is why I love you, okay? Because you, you came into my life right when I needed you to come into my life. Because I, Yeah, because I was at a really low point as it relates to church because I was abused by my vacation Bible school teacher. And so, and I loved church so much.

I loved going three times a week. I liked the little cookies that you would put on your pinky, you know, in vacation Bible school. The little butter, the butter. Yeah. Yeah. The little daisy looking butter cookies. So I loved that. And I loved the red Kool Aid and the balloons and all that. and the songs.

There's some crazy Vacation Bible School songs by, by the way. Uh, anyway, but. 

Kim Gravel: And I can sing them verbatim right now for you, right now. I know, there are some weird ones. 

Nancy French: But then when that happened, it sort of separated me from my church community and from God in a lot of ways, because it just sort of, I, I was, 10 years younger.

So it was like 12 and he was like in his 20s. And he was a preacher. And so I. It was just disorienting to me because I really believed the Bible, and I thought it was going to H E double hockey sticks because of this activity. But then when I would go to church, he would be there, so I'd have to stand away, and I started becoming one of those people who smokes, like, clove cigarettes, and Paints her fingernails black and, you know, sits on the edge of church, you know, church's campus or whatever.

And anyway, it just sort of messed me up. And it set me in a bad path. Why would it not? How could it not? Yeah, it was just sort of hard to get back to God in that way. And anyway, I'm still sort of climbing my way back. But that's when I met you. Because when I met you, Kim Gravel loves her some church. 

Kim Gravel: I love church.

I love church now. I don't say I love all church people. 

Nancy French: I know, but it was nice, like you're, you're, you weren't cynical like I was, or you weren't bitter like I was, and so it was so nice because we would talk for like hours and hours about stuff, and it was just so meaningful to me. You just lifted me when you didn't realize you were.

Kim Gravel: Oh, you did the same for me, Nancy. I mean, you, you, you, you are such a deep well, and I think it is because of your past experiences, because you have dealt with so many different, you know, interesting, wonderful, complicated people. I mean, you've written books for politicians. Like, name some of the people that you have ghostwrited for in, in, in the book business.

Nancy French: Yeah, well, I started out with, Ann Romney, and that one didn't get published. Yeah, because Mitt didn't win in 08, and she went on to do a different one. And then I lived with Sarah Palin in Alaska. 

Kim Gravel: Oh, in Alas Oh, that's fabulous. 

Nancy French: Oh, it was so crazy and fun. It was like she would make me mousse casseroles and, you know, I don't know.

She's Yeah, you had me It's so crazy. 

Kim Gravel: You had me at casserole. Okay. I know. You know. 

Nancy French: Yeah. No, she was so great. And so I've lived with Sarah Palin. I think I did three Palin books and I've worked with Senator Ben Sasse and a bunch of GOP politicians, just a bunch of those guys. But then I also worked with like, I've written some stuff for like Kim Kardashian and Sean Lowe, the bachelor and, you know, nothing compares to Kim Gravel, but you know, I've just, I've had some experiences.

Kim Gravel: Well, move over, Kim. There's another Kim coming. I'm teasing. No, you have. And the thing about it is, is that, you know, you have to manage people's live stories. Live stories when you're doing this. What did writing your own, which, personally, I want to say this to everybody. Not everybody can work with Nancy.

But I, I really recommend everyone write something about their life story. There's, there was something, do you remember I would fight you on this? People, I mean, okay, I'm in front of the TV a lot and I'm like, but I really. I am not a person that likes to be out front and on stage. It's the weirdest thing.

Now, my sister, honey, she'd beat you with a yardstick or a baseball bat to get in front of a camera and be on, I'll be about her. There's something that I think is so important for everyone to write their story. Why? What did writing your story down do for you? 

Nancy French: Well, I don't know if you remember this, but when we first started collecting confidence, I said to you this.

I said, we are not writing your story. God is writing your story and Because he writes he orders the path the steps of a righteous woman and man and I just feel like God is writing the story and so you don't have to feel so I have a lot of stuff that i've embarrassed about like I Didn't behave the way that I should have behaved and I didn't treat people the way I should have Treated them and I made bad romantic decisions and my parents are still alive.

So do I need to write this down? so I had to sort of Grapple with that, you know, like that's actually hard. And so I I just really had to get it The shame of it and just move it away because I know that I've done terrible stuff. I'm not writing this so I can go be some sort of moral leader or, you know, whatever.

It's just my story and I'm just very thankful to be able to tell it. And so I just sort of moved from shame to gratitude. And I hope that people, when they read it, they won't judge me, you know, as much as I judged myself my whole life. I'm almost 50, Kim. I'm like, just now, I swear to you, the, the message of, I'm sorry, I keep talking about your book.

The message of, 

Kim Gravel: We're here to talk about your book, by the way. 

Nancy French: This tells you that I'm really a ghostwriter at heart. But the message of your freaking book. I don't think I got, Kim. I feel like I'm getting it now. What? Yeah, because I, I, like, you know, we talk about it. I sort of fake confidence. I've faked confidence my whole life.

And then I met you and you're so effervescent with just, you know, this confident love. It's just really impressive. And I always felt like I was like a few, a few steps behind you on it. And I was trying to catch up the whole time. 

Kim Gravel: Oh my gosh, Nancy. 

Nancy French: Yeah. And then now I'm so I'm, I'm 49. I have cancer, very aggressive type of cancer.

And now that I have it, it's like, I feel so thankful for myself. You feel confident. You feel confident. Yes. Like I'm bald as an eagle. 

Kim Gravel: Well, that's a good, that's a good hair piece. That's a good wig. You look good. And I love it dark, but we'll talk about, I mean, you're looking good too, girl. We'll talk about the cancer in a minute.

What, why do you think, listen to me point, I'm all, you know, I'm always trying to touch you. Why do you think? You're confident now because I'm going to tell you something once a woman turns or gets close to that 50 I mean, that's when I lost all my weight. I mean, there's just something about it. Like, you know, the clock is ticking Not that you not that you're concerned about it.

I'm saying like especially you with cancer I mean, like you said you're bald as an eagle. What is it about this time in your life that gives you that confidence? 

Nancy French: There's something really beautiful about aging And maturing because I feel like I've always tried to present myself until now and now 

Kim Gravel: what do you mean by that?

What do you mean by that? What do you mean by that? That's good. 

Nancy French: I feel like every time that I interacted with people in the past or most of the time that I sort of had a self that interacts with other people and that self like a presentation. A presentation. I was put together. I was trying to convince you that I'm smart.

I, you know, I dropped out of college three times. I never graduated. So I feel like maybe I was always like trying to make sure that I use polysyllabic words. So you think I'm smart or do my hair. So you think I'm cute. I mean, I did try to do my makeup better because I was going to see you. 

Kim Gravel: Your makeup is killer right now.

Nancy French: I don't have any eyelashes, by the way. or nose hairs or any hair. 

Kim Gravel:  I can send you some. I've got fake ones on right now, so I'll send you some. 

Nancy French: I'm glad you picked up what I was throwing down. I need some. But, I don't know. I just feel very thankful. At 50, there's just something, cause you're no longer, you know, I've been married for 28 years.

And so there's something very beautiful about aging and, Already being married, not having to impress, impress people, not having to be sexy, not having to be as put together. I don't know. There's just something beautiful about aging. 

Kim Gravel: I agree. I agree.

Tell us one thing that, that's going to shock me about your story when I read your book. Cause I, I've got it on pre order. I got, I can't wait. 

Nancy French: One thing that I'm, No longer embarrassed about, but it does not reflect well on me, Kim, is that one time when I was, after I was doing some ghosting and stuff, we already mentioned the Romney's one time I lied to Mitt Romney.

Kim Gravel: Well, he's a politician, so I'm sure he's used to it. 

Nancy French: And the lie almost resulted in me killing him and him killing me. Uh, the, the question he asked me was, do you know how to ski? Kim, you know, if you're from the South, that means it's something different than if you're talking to someone who lives in Utah, right?

So I went with a Baptist youth group when I was in seventh grade to Paoli Peaks, Indiana. And so I hadn't been skiing before. So I answered, yes, I love to ski. I'm really good at skiing. So he and Ann were like, Oh, wonderful. We're going to be in Utah tomorrow morning. Just, we'll let you know where the house is.

We'll tell you where the keys are. Fill the refrigerator. We'll see you in the morning. We'll ski all day. So I go to their house and I'm so happy, right? Because David was deployed at this time. I'm married to David French who had joined the army after 9 11 and was in Iraq at the time. So I was sort of, I don't know, resentful of the fact that I never got to do anything.

So I was like, I'm doing this. So I go to their house and I sit with them and I make this joke when Mitt says, So tell me about your skiing. And I said, I'm practically Jean Claude Keeley because that was the only skier I knew. And Mitt, who had run the 2002 Winter Olympics, said, Oh, I know Jean Claude.

That's great. Okay, so, I, so the next day, 

Kim Gravel: Well, when did you start panicking? 

Nancy French: Well, I, for some reason, Kim, thought that everything would be okay. 

Kim Gravel: That sounded confident to me, girl! 

Nancy French: It's delusional. But, I thought I would get to the top of the mountain, and like, I would look down, and I would say, You know, I think I can probably do this, and Bob Costas would like, narrate something, like, She didn't know she could ski until she believed in herself.

And so, anyway. Bad things happened, but the whole thing was absolutely insane. Mitt and I had no clothes and Mitt had run the 2002 minute Olympics. So he opens his closet and he's like, oh Lord, I've got, I've got stuff for you. And you'll never feel more insecure, Kim, than when Mitt Romney is looking you up and down to determine your size.

Kim Gravel: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Nancy French: So he was like, oh, so I think these eights will work. And you know, I was probably 12. 

Kim Gravel: 8 is good. Okay. Okay. But that, 

that's a good, good, good job Mitt. Good job. Yeah, 

Nancy French: he was great. He was really great. But the, the downside of that, I was dressed in Olympic gear from head to toe with all the rings.

And so my lack of skill made me look like a drunk Olympian. 

Kim Gravel: You were, you were drunker than Cooter Brown going down them hills, girl. 

Nancy French: Yeah. Mistakes were made, Kim. 

Kim Gravel: Okay, how bad, like, was it like, physically could have broke many limbs? Okay. 

Nancy French: I, I shot past the Romneys so fast because I didn't know you're supposed to like zig zag.

How are you supposed to know that if you're from Tennessee? And Mitt was down there and the only way to stop myself was to take out Mitt Romney. And I took him out. We were in a ball of fire. body parts, like it's a see if he had actually won the GOP nomination, the Secret Service would have shot me or something.

Yeah, you would have been a goner. Yeah, but it was awful. And then afterwards, I was so embarrassed because obviously I couldn't ski and I'd lied the whole time. And so we were standing on the side and Mitt and Ann were standing there and we were, I was crying and Ann was like, are you okay? And I was like, I'm so sorry.

I lied to you because I wanted to hang out. And she said. you know, because David was in Iraq. She said, it is quite possible that you are in more physical danger right now than David. And so I was like, okay. And so she was like, I think we should pray because we were very, it was dangerous. And she goes, I think we should pray.

And so we stood on the side of the mountain praying that God would save me. And he did. So anyway, I just, but it, but I've never spoken to him about this. And I sent him the book for, endorsement and he endorsed it and he, in the endorsement, he said something like, Nancy French is a person of integrity and I thought, okay, thanks man.

Kim Gravel: But she cannot ski. 

Nancy French: She cannot ski and she will lie to you about it. 

Kim Gravel: She will lie to you to be hanging out with you cause she can't ski. Okay, so Nancy, this is, this is what I, how, how have you, I want to hear how the book ends. Like a lot of people like, how does the book begin? How do you start? How does this book end?

Because you've had, you've had sexual abuse. You have dealt with betrayal. I'll leave it at that. You have been around a lot of high profile people. You and David have dealt with like controversy in the media. And now you have, I mean, you had a husband that went off to war. You know, and now you've got this aggressive cancer.

What kind of cancer do you have? 

Nancy French: Okay, so I have triple negative breast cancer, which is super, super aggressive and is already spread to the lymph nodes. So I have like six months of chemo, included in that chemo is called the red devil. Which, he who is in me is greater than he who is in the red devil, Kim.

Amen. But it is brutal. It's the most brutal form of chemo. So that's what I'm doing right now. That's, I'm, I've been bald for a long time, but in this, but this is worse. The way that I'm, the, my current state is more precarious than it has been, and then I'll have surgery and radiation. So I've got a long haul, but the, I don't think that cancer diagnosis changes anything about the book because.

The way the book ends, and I think this, I think people, you know, who have had problems, which is all of us, 

Kim Gravel: which is all of us. Yeah. 

Nancy French: Yeah. I can resonate with this because the way I, I just feel loved, you know, and I feel like I, I end the note on love and I, I feel very, very strongly that God directs our paths and that he's sort of in control of, you know, the things that happen.

And I don't love the cancer. I just trust God. You know, like I don't 

Kim Gravel: how how Nancy there's so many people listening to you right now that what can I say? I don't maybe doubt. How do you trust when you have the red devil on your back? Do I'm saying how do you trust that? , how do you trust? 

Nancy French: So it's okay to talk about God on the show 

Kim Gravel: Who you talking to?

You know me these people so used to me. Okay 

Nancy French: Okay, well, I just feel like I keep bringing this up and, and, you know, a lot of people It's your story. 

Kim Gravel: It's, it's, you know, Hey, we don't judge everybody, but this is your story. 

Nancy French: Well, God has shown up and shown himself to me many, many times in ways that are incontrovertible.

Now I might not be able to convince my postman about it, but I know because God has shown up and you know, Kim, because there are some stories and you haven't told all your stories. 

Kim Gravel: Oh, Jesus. Take the wheel. 

Nancy French: Yes, but she's, she's, you've had amazing stories about God showing up and you cannot explain it otherwise.

You can't deny it. You can't. And, I just feel very thankful for that. Like I've, every time, Like, with my daughter, I had like a miraculous thing happen with her and with my son. And I, I just, God has shown up in so many interesting ways that, and I write about it and I just decided to write about it, even though I don't understand it because God has also shown up in ways that are super mysterious and weird and baffling and confounding and quite frankly, angering, in my life.

And I, so I feel like I've sort of been wrangling with God my whole life. Ooh. And he is, so it's like, we're sort of like. wrestling. I, you know, and, and that's been happening, but he's shown me this warmth and this cozy sort of love and affection. And even though I've been so disgruntled with the church, I just have a vice grip on God and, you know, hanging onto Christianity by my fingernails, but I just, I just trust God.

And that means, and that's not that everything will be okay. You know, I might kick the bucket with this, but I just trust him. And I'm thankful for everything that I've done. 

Kim Gravel: All right, we gotta, we gotta talk more about your adoption and, and, and these kind of miraculous stories where you have seen God show up.

And if, well, more with that, more with Nancy, when we come back, y'all come on back.

All right, we're back with Nancy French. Y'all, she has written so many books. This is the most, one of the most talented people. Nancy, when we were writing my book, I remember writing down the big words you would say, cause I'd have to go Google them and look them up. Okay, so like you made me sound intelligent because you are so intelligent.

 We were talking about before the break how God has just shown up in your life. You've got to tell your story about your adopted daughter who is absolutely. Girlfriend, lock her up now. She is absolutely gorgeous. Can you, when did she become a woman? She's so pretty. 

Nancy French: She, and her middle name is Conchita.

I know, which means beautiful. And her first name is Naomi, which means pleasant. So that's a very aspirational name, but she lives up to it. So yeah, so David and I had two blonde hair, blue eyed kids, and we decided for number three that we should adopt. And so we really, you know, sort of agonized over that because.

Well, actually this does not reflect well on me either, Kim, but when David, well, hi. Keep it real. When David brought it up to me, I said, why? Why would we adopt? Our kids are behaved, you know, they are making good grades. Everything is good. We add this extra person. You know, there's no telling what could happen and you know, we have a great marriage.

Everything is calm. And David looked at me and he said, well. What type of family should adopt? Families that don't, you know, that have kids that are misbehaving and bad marriages, or do you think that we're 

Kim Gravel: We did, we did good. We maybe, we could do good again. Yeah. 

Nancy French: Yeah, and so we decided to adopt and with trepidation we went to Ethiopia.

That was the fastest, most direct way to adopt at the time. And went there with our hearts full of sort of fear. I was sort of fearful because what would happen when you add a stranger to your family, a stranger who's never seen probably a white person before. And, anyway, so we go to Ethiopia and I, I told the kids before we went down there, I was like, you know, this is going to be hard, but life is short.

And, and you, you know, it's, this is what we've decided to do. And this is a. a wonderful thing to do. And, you know, we just need to brace for it. So we get Naomi and she's wonderful. She's amazing. Uh, we've had, you know, a lot, we've had her for many years and ups and downs, but she's really, really, really a wonderful flourishing person, but it was very hard at first.

And, you have to go through all of these, this paperwork when you get home. And when we got home, David and I were looking through the paperwork and he noticed her birthday. And the sweetest thing about that was that that was the night that David was flying into Iraq, which was also a very difficult decision that caused us much trepidation and fear.

And on that night, he was in a helicopter behind a gunner looking out. There were fires burning, you know, across the land. He was, and he prayed to God on that night that God would protect him and show him, you know, that he has a future. And God never answered him. And so the whole time that he was in Iraq, people died.

He, when he was in Iraq, his unit suffered more casualties than any other unit. This was at the height of the surge and David saw genocide. It was awful. And so he never got that assurance from God. You know how sometimes God talks to you and sometimes he frustratingly does not. So God was not having that.

So David was like, God, please help me survive this. And he never got any sort of assurance. Also, he saw a million, or not a million, but he saw a lot of his friends die who were good Christian people better than, you know, we are. And so it was sort of hard to figure out. So that night when we were sitting there looking at the adoption papers, and we saw that Naomi was born on that night where he was asking To assure him of his safety, that God was preparing a future for our family, somewhere in Africa, on a continent we'd never been to.

But he knew that he had plans for us, and he was preparing that for us, even though, in his wisdom, he decided not to let us in on that. Sorry, I get emotional. 

Kim Gravel: But it's so true. It's so true, because we don't know what we don't know, but he knows. 

Nancy French: Right. And you just ask for stuff and you sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't sometimes he heals and sometimes he doesn't sometimes he delivers sometimes he doesn't it's so baffling.

It's so baffling, but you just I just trust that he's good, you know, 

Kim Gravel: uh, yeah, he's good. We don't see it all the time, but he's good. Now after that wasn't David vetted to be. As a possible candidate for the presidency? Yes, . Okay. You've got to like, okay. Not all of us have that opportunity. I mean, I just personally, Zac, don't you wanna know like what is that like?

Zac Miller: Yeah, I'm really curious. 

Kim Gravel: What's upsetting to be, I mean, like, do y'all have FBI files? I, I'm just saying. I'm just asking. 

Nancy French: Oh yeah. So, yeah, so during 2016, I think it was Bill Crystal tweeted out something about David possibly running for president, which was so terrifying. Okay. Yeah, terrifying. So we were in New York because I'd taken my kids there to see Hamilton, right?

And we were gonna stay a few weeks because I wanted them to see the city before college and so all of a sudden Report everyone is trying to figure out who David French is. Who's this guy? David French and he's wonderful, but he wouldn't have even been my first candidate choice, right? 

Kim Gravel: So, I thought you were gonna say he wouldn't have been my first choice for my husband either, but here we are 

Nancy French: Right.

Yeah, definitely. I picked 

Kim Gravel: there's a story there too. There's a story there too. Anyway, go ahead 

So get the book people get the book 

Nancy French: and I didn't have clothes like I didn't dress to be on tv Yeah, right. You didn't know me yet. You didn't know me yet. You could have helped so much. 

Kim Gravel: I could have styled you from head to toe.

Nancy French: Oh, I would have been a great first lady. Come on, there's still time. 

Kim Gravel: Of course, and I'd had you banging honey with lashes and everything. Go ahead. 

Nancy French: I need you now. So anyway, so it was just terrifying because everybody was You know, and I thought, Kim, and this, one of their things is, I still hadn't told about my sexual abuse, these boyfriends, and I thought that when his name was floated, that the reporters would find that and humiliate me.

And they did, they looked through everything, but what, they didn't find that, but they found something about our Christianity and are rules about marriage during deployment and stuff and they just, they made something up like Nancy French is not allowed, David French did not allow Nancy French to use the internet while he was gone.

Something like that. That I was subservient. It didn't make sense. It was just a Politico writer who tweeted that out and. That is so not you either. No, and also, I didn't care about people calling me subservient, like, Oh, you got me Politico reporter. You found it. Ooh. Because I was nervous about the, you know, my past.

And so they were like, Okay, now it's time to be vetted. Now David French, who writes for the New York Times now, did not run for president. But he, he thought about it for a few days. And during those days, we had to do very cool things, including but not limited to reporters found are sort of econo. Lodging that I got in Manhattan that I got from Airbnb that was super cheap and didn't have a doorman was super hot And so they found us there And I couldn't go back because there were reporters outside the apartment And so there was so these people were like, okay, you have to go and find a place to live in New York and I was like Okay, I definitely want to do that because I love looking at like rich people houses and how rich people live in Manhattan It's just full of that.

And so I got to go to like three different places and see these like multi million dollar apartments And I loved it so much. I was so happy But that was just in case some in case he ran we needed a headquarters there. So I was all about that but and But the other, the thing that was actually terrifying was sitting down with someone to be vetted where they ask you everything.

Do you have any problems romantically, sexually, What? Financially, have you ever fought with your neighbor? You know, stuff like that. And so, anybody who could come out and embarrass you. So, I had to sit down and take a real serious reflection on my life and it was pretty terrifying. Of course, later I put it all in this book, so I don't know why I'm so nervous about it.

Kim Gravel: And can I just say, from politically speaking, I think what you might have done in your past, Hany, a lot of people have done a lot worse. And have gone on to have very successful political careers. 

Nancy French: Yeah, well, you know, my main thing is I was mean. 

Kim Gravel: Yeah. 

Nancy French: Does that make sense? I mean, she's sort of meaner. I, I just was, I, I.

Kim Gravel: I could be mean too. I think we all have that. And I, I, I was not, I was not even menopause going through it and mean. So I mean, girl, you're in good company. 

Nancy French: Right. Right. But I feel like. 

Kim Gravel: Menopause makes you mean. 

Nancy French: Oh, I'm very familiar with that. This chemo has shoved me into menopause. I think. Cause it, it catalyzes that.

So I, my body temperature is either Chernobyl or Arctic tundra. It is crazy. 

Kim Gravel: Yeah, I mean, you have a hot flash of two seconds, 

Nancy French: right? And it's like serious. I can sure everybody already knows this, but I don't know if it's chemo exactly or if it's menopause or it's all mixed up. But I am, my body is doing things I never thought it would do.

Kim Gravel: Are you, are you, You're clearly such a gifted writer and you're prolific in that it just comes through you. I don't even think it's you, right? I think it just comes through you. And I say that in the book, like your purpose and your calling in life, and you know, I've had mixed emotions. A lot of people said, I don't believe we have a calling and people that, They're dead wrong, first of all, I mean, why would God give us such gifts and talents in certain areas if he did not want us to use it, to benefit everybody else, to the glory of who he is, you know, and writing is that way for you.

It just comes through you so easily. Have you been validated in that? Or is it, do you believe that to your core, Nancy? Do you take it for granted? 

Nancy French: No, I'm so thankful. I didn't, I never learned how to do stuff. Like I, I sort of, I, I'm an autodidact. I, I've taught myself because I never graduated from college.

I have some learning issues and, I just, I'm a, I love telling stories and the fact that I get to do it. I've ever going to take that for granted. And people frequently are like, Oh, ghostwriting is so like low, low in the totem pole. 

Kim Gravel: No, it is not. 

Nancy French: It's so sacred to be able to hold someone's story, you know, and, and also Kim, honestly, you know, I love you.

We have spent so much time together and I feel like it's such a sacred opportunity. Sisterhood. Yeah. And to also, it's, it's, it's the story of what God has done, you know? So like when you're writing a story, if you tell it honestly, it's what God has done. And that's what I tried to do in Ghosted instead of trying to like make myself look better.

It's like, I, this is, this is my level of, you know, whatever. But God has been faithful. I've been unfaithful. God is faithful. I've messed up. God hasn't messed up. And it's just beautiful. I just, I just love it. I'm so thankful to be able to write. I would write, I used to. answer ads for Craigslist for 50 and that's how I started and they never paid Kim.

I would write all that stuff. They probably didn't even pay. No, I didn't know. But anyway, so every time I get paid a dime, I think about that Craigslist thing and I'm so, so thankful. 

Kim Gravel: So, so, all right, Nancy, let me ask you this. What would you say to someone who's listening to this right now that is in your shoes, whether they're dealing with trauma or cancer or They're approaching 50 or in their 50s that have a dream and they know there's something inside of them.

Maybe it's very, maybe it's hidden Maybe they've never said anything to anybody. Maybe they've never spoke it out. What would you say to that person? That might think it's too late or they can't move forward in it, you know, someone who's doubting, 

Nancy French: you know, I think there's a part of them still that exist that hopes and dreams and frequently another part of them moves in to manage that like, Oh, no, no, no, no, you can't think that you can't dream that we're not, you were disappointed before you don't want to be disappointed again.

So you sort of manage, you know, Your fears you manage your expectation and you try to protect yourself from getting hurt And there's something very beautiful about just sort of being willing to be hurt Being willing to be vulnerable being willing to be sort of like less than what you think you are and just pursuing it with a hopeful sort of confidence That even if you know, because i've done so many things that haven't worked out.

I've written three novels I couldn't give them away. I couldn't get any publisher to look at them So it's not necessarily that you will succeed but that you will you will definitely succeed in your effort in your efforts because it does something for you. And who knows what will happen, you know, like who knows what will, if this book will sell or whatever, but I did it.

And I'm so thankful with the cancer diagnosis to have it written down and to be able to record it with my own voice so that my kids can have it. So anyway, I just feel thankful for that, but I just want people to like, it's not, I want people to Acknowledge the different voices that they hear. So some people will say a part of me wants to do this thing and do art be artistic.

If a part of me thinks that I'm too afraid to do that and just differentiate between those two parts. And when you do that, it's like you're sort of separating them out and you can sort of talk to yourself like David did in the Bible where he says, you know, bless the Lord. Oh my soul. Who is he talking to?

You know, he's talking to himself. Yeah, and you, you do that. You do a lot of healthy self talk, and I think we could do that, and it's not to Disparage the part of you that doesn't want to get hurt because that part of you is important and beautiful too And it's only trying to protect you, but you can acknowledge that that part doesn't have to do that now You can say okay.

I'm 50 or I'm 60 or I'm 70 I don't have to worry about being ostracized in the sixth grade, you know, lunch cafeteria anymore. I can just do what I want. 

Kim Gravel: And also, like, I love how you say, you're speaking to the, I used to think I was like, I think I've told you this before, that am I schizophrenic? I've actually said, because I will, there's, I mean, I go like, I mean, I go back and forth and I'll talk to myself and I can, it's almost like, it's like I'm going outside of myself, listening to myself, talk to another part of myself.

It's the best. And I, now everybody don't, don't write me to Kim's crazy or bipolar or anything. All of that's probably true, but I'm just saying like, When you say we're talking, we have so many voices that come at us, especially if we've experienced trauma, especially who hasn't, right? In different ways.

And pain is pain. I don't care what that has been for you. So how have you taken your pain and used it to help other people? I think this book is going to be that. So everybody needs to get the book because I think it's going to bless you and really help you, You know, with the things that you've dealt with in your life, but because if I know Nancy, it will do that.

But what, what do you hope that people get from this, Nancy? 

Nancy French: You know, I think because I was the victim of sexual abuse, I never wanted to talk about it, hear about it, or think about it. But when I was doing your book, I started working on an investigation to help other people who had been abused. And that was the most difficult thing I've ever done in my life.

I felt it almost killed me to be completely honest. I know you, I balled on the phone with you more than once. 

Kim Gravel: Well because the outcome was not what it should have been. 

Nancy French: Yeah. I proved everything and nobody really cared. Uh, the church had a collective yawn, Kim. That's why I get so upset. I know. Yeah. So anyway, but I want people to really, and this sort of ties back to the If you're trying to dream what to do with your life, I want people to realize that it doesn't matter what the outcome is because you are responsible for your actions and God is responsible for what happens with that, the consequences.

And so that's very liberating. That means that you don't have to worry about checking off the boxes like, okay, I did this investigation and the camp was shut down or the church did this or whatever. You don't have to do any of that. You're just. I know that I do not exact justice on earth. I don't have that sort of power.

And so I'm just sort of standing here with a sign on the side of the road and saying, Hey guys, justice is important. Hey guys, we should protect children. Hey guys, love is important. Hey guys. And it's, I'm pointing to a future day when all things will be made right and the tears will be dried. And so I'm just, I just consider myself a road sign.

Like, okay, one day, this is, this is coming. It may not be today, in spite of my best efforts. This is coming. And so a lot of these people who are listening, you guys, you know, you're dreaming, you're thinking, you know, what can I do? I think it's just very wonderful to serve people and to, you know, to, to, to, to, to Pour everything into that because that is not going to come back to you without some, like, that's just a beautiful thing that's transformational.

So for the past maybe three years I've been doing investigative journalism, which has been so frustrating, and terrifying and, difficult, but it's the most important thing I've ever done. 

Kim Gravel: You know, I think, I think that's why, like, because I am, like, you know me, I love the crime stories. You know, I love that.

I love a good, like, ghost story, like a murder, you know, like a, haunting thing. And I also love the crime stories. And, you know, that's, that's, like, so big for women our age. I mean, women our age, like, and I think it's because, like, We do want to see justice. We do. We do want to see right be right, you know, and, and I do believe and I'm gonna do a big swing around here.

I do believe that when people don't operate in their purpose and their calling in life, It opens up messes to happen. I know that seems like a big stretch, like me doing my calling is the reason people, you know, are not doing the right thing, but kind of so, right? Because like if people would just operate and really be almost selfish in their pursuit of what they're called to do on this earth, we'd stay out of everybody else's business if nothing else.

Nancy French: Right. I know. That's exactly right. And it gives you so much, and there's so much good things to be done. It really keeps you busy too. You know, like I've been doing almost nothing else for three years, but, and I'm thankful even though, and I, I think, I think that's something very important where you just do stuff without fearing failure.

Kim Gravel: Correct. You know what? I think I've just had an idea. I think you and I, our next book and then a series should be about a true crime podcast. We would kill that. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no pun intended. No pun intended. 

Zac Miller: 100 percent pun intended. 

Nancy French: Zac, are you, are you available for a second? I mean, let's do it. Okay.

Kim Gravel: Listen, I got, we do something every time we have a podcast. We do rapid fire questions. Now look, oh gosh, I know. I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you my little speech because even, I mean, I've had celebrities on here that can talk the hair off a monkey's butt. I mean, I've got people that can talk, and every time I do this, they're like, Oh, and I'm like, no, it's called rapid fire.

Don't let me down, Nancy. I'll do it. Do not let me down. Okay, but don't judge me. No judgment, but I'm counting on you. Okay. Okay. So this is the fill in the blank So I'm gonna be like my name is and then you fill in the blank. Okay. Here we go. You ready?

My first impression of Kim Gravel was 

Nancy French: Red neck hillbilly just like me

Kim Gravel: Yay! Oh my God, that's the biggest compliment. I told you, I told you Zac, Nancy wasn't going to let us down. The strangest request I've ever received from a client was? 

Nancy French: To be interviewed, nude. 

Kim Gravel: Are you serious right now? 

Nancy French: Yeah, I wasn't nude, the client was.

I won't tell you which one. Zac, is it Kim ? Was it Kim Gravel? Was it Kim? 

Zac Miller: I think it was Kim. It sounds like Kim. Although, Kim, you have said in the past, and I quote, We're a naked family. 

Kim Gravel: Yeah, my family's a naked family. We are. Like, everybody's naked. I mean, all the time.

Like, there's no modesty at all. Alright. And let me just tell y'all, it's not weird either, so please don't write me, because I'm going to delete them anyway. Okay. 

Nancy French: Well, when you look good, you got to show it. 

Kim Gravel: Well, we don't look good. I mean, Lord. Y'all, this is a true story. I got to tell you.

You might want to cut this out, Zac. But Travis said to me the other day, like, he's watching Naked and Afraid on TV. So he said to me, he said, Kim, should I go on Naked and Afraid? I said, dude, you'd win. You would win Naked and Afraid. 

But I'm just going to tell you right now, he's not, he's not good, you know, there's good naked and bad naked. And I'm just going to be honest with you, Travis, you wouldn't tune in for the body, but for the brain. Here we go! The one word my high school teachers would have used to describe me is 

Nancy French: Disobedient and disrespectful.

Kim Gravel: Oh, that's two words. 

Zac Miller: That's two words. Sorry 

Nancy French: I got kicked out of my english class because they said that I was what? They said that I that my teacher I think maybe struggled a little bit. I think she later Yeah, but she removed me from her class 

Kim Gravel: Struggled with what struggled with what Nancy? 

Nancy French: She was sort of she was sort of mean and She for some reason she picked on me like she picked me to be a target of her.

Uh, You And she could, she told the principal, I cannot, I cannot teach this person. She's such a terrible writer. She even told me that she could tell that I was an idiot because my handwriting was loopy. And she told me that scientists have shown that people with handwriting like mine were ignorant. I swear to you, I probably am a writer today because Linda ed at Henry County High School.

Kim Gravel: Linda, honey, we love you, honey, but you missed the mark on that one. Listen, can I tell you something? I want to, this is a tidbit and a trick. I'm starting to do this little series of like tips and tricks. Everybody wants to know tips and tricks, but this is one of them. I'm so glad you said this because whatever you were put down, made fun of, or told you can't do, nine times out of ten is the thing you should do.

Right. It's the weirdest thing. I, I think that it's like, people say, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. What'd you get made fun of when you were young? That's probably the thing you need to be doing. 

Nancy French: I know, it's almost like Satan was trying to undermine you. And you have to just have fortitude. 

Kim Gravel: Yeah.

Well, but that's what I'm saying. Like, if you know that, like, you know, I've taught my kids that I'm like, Oh, if they make it fun of you, that that's the one thing that you, that's, that's the good thing about you. Yeah. I love that. All right, Linda. Her name was Linda. Listen, Linda, here we go. Here we go. The movie I always stop to watch when it's on TV is.

Nancy French: Notting Hill.

Kim Gravel: Oh God, The Blue Door. The flippin Blue Door. He's hot. Oh, such an amazing movie. It's Hugh Grant, right? That's who's in it, right? He's hot. 

Nancy French: And he had those little goggles, you know, the swim goggles when he was watching the movie. And Julia Roberts was so pretty and so romantic. 

Kim Gravel: I know, and he has great hair.

I mean, they had good, like, like, side characters too. And anything British to me sounds like, more intelligent for some reason. 

Nancy French: Definitely. It's definitely funnier and smarter. Yeah. 

Kim Gravel: Right now I'm obsessed with blank. 

Nancy French: Robert Olin Butler's book called Hell, which is crazy. I just read it. He won a Pulitzer for a different book.

I just finished it. It was so good, Kim. It was the story of a reporter who goes to hell. And everybody's in hell, like everybody from Bill Clinton to JFK to Mother Teresa to Christopher Hitchens. 

Kim Gravel: Oh my gosh! 

Nancy French: So he has to go and interview people for one segment repeatedly for eternity, which was, Now, why do you think you're here?

It was just this beautiful book. I thought it was sort of like, I was sort of irritated because like some of my, you know, politicians that I like ended up in hell in this book, but it was a beautiful reflection on mortality and the depravity of man and love. You know, and it was just, it's just really beautiful.

I loved it. 

Kim Gravel: And what I interested is it got a lot of big words. I'm not gonna be able to get through it. 

Nancy French: You might, it may be a few big words, but you might. 

Kim Gravel: Okay. I'll get my thesaurus or dictionary, whatever out right now. Cause I don't even think that's a source is what we need to be using. Anyway, listen, I remember I come from hillbilly redneck.

Here we go. The skill I wish I had is. 

Nancy French: Piano playing. 

Kim Gravel: Right. Did you take lessons? 

Nancy French: Yes. And, you know, you don't care about them when you have the lessons. You hate them. And Kim, I actually am doing this mathematical calculation because if I, okay, I'm almost 50. How long would it take me to get good at piano playing?

And am I too old to try is exactly what you were saying. Like, you know, cause I'm doing so much stuff. So I'm writing and I'm also doing art, like visual art. 

Kim Gravel: Your art is gorgeous. I want you to draw me something. Talk about that offline. 

Nancy French: Okay, but do you know what I mean? So I feel like I might have missed out on my piano playing opportunities.

Kim Gravel: You're not too old to try. I think you might be too old to be proficient. 

Nancy French: Yeah, and they're so, pianos are so expensive, and I'm just like, I don't know if I want to sink into this.

Kim Gravel: I think I'll get your little keyboard. 

Zac Miller: You could be proficient. You could be halfway decent.

Nancy French:  I want to play, I want to play Zac and have Kim Gravel sing. 

Zac Miller: You need a player piano so it does it for you and you just sit there and you're like pretend. 

Kim Gravel: Now that, I'm all for faking it. I'm all for faking it. 

Nancy French: I do need that. Those are sort of expensive and I do need that. Maybe if the book sells. Ha ha ha.

Kim Gravel: Yeah, I think it's going to sell. I think you're going to have to, but I think a piano might be the last on your list. The thing you're going to get. Here we go. If I started my own church, it would be called the church of the blank. 

Nancy French: The church of the, of the overlooked. Yeah. Because I just feel like the, the people, and in fact, the Robert Olin Butler book about hell had all of our presidents, all of the religious leaders, because they had power, right?

And so with my investigation into the camp in Missouri that had sexual abuse, I've noticed that anyone who has power, when it's mixed with churches. It's sometimes it just has terrible results. And I am just, I feel so overlooked and betrayed by my church community. And I love all you guys and I love, you know, God and everything, but I just, it's just very hard.

So it'd be nice to have a church where the overlooked people could sort of just gather without being bitter and just sort of, you know, Encounter God. I know. 

Kim Gravel: I know. But girl, Nancy, so many people feel the way you feel like I'm going to tell you right now. That's going to resonate. I mean, I will. Well, that's a whole nother podcast.

But that one thing that you just said right there, the overlooked. That is the church. Don't make me have to get up and preach now. Somebody call me. Okay, here we go. The hardest thing I've ever had to say to someone was 

Nancy French: so Confessing saying that you've done bad things and that you're sorry and there and I've done I've had ever since I've gotten older I've just tried to like Because when you're a victim of sexual abuse you are forced into lies immediately because you immediately Not necessarily there's some people but you've got this preacher saying oh, you can't tell anybody about this And so you start covering up stuff and you start covering up stuff.

So you become Deceptive and I was deceptive and so my whole and you know My whole thing was a I was trying to present myself in a way that I wasn't and so I think the hardest thing I've ever had to Do a sort of come clean about my past, you know, which I've now done in the spring. Yes, but I had to go to my parents house before this book came out because they didn't even know I was writing it, Kim.

And get permission from them. Not permission. Their blessing. Because I, and I'd already written it. And I, but I was so terrified to talk to them because I love them so much. And I had to go into their apartment, their house and say, I've written this book. There's some hard things in it. It tells the truth and I want your actual blessing.

And so, and I said, and the following things are included, the abuse, this, this, this. And Kim, I felt so gratified. I had dreaded this conversation for a year. I had never talked to my parents about my abuse other than when they found out about it a long time ago. And it always felt sort of sketchy about the fact that they didn't act.

Kim Gravel: Yeah. 

Nancy French: And so when I talked to my parents about it in that wonderful conversation, my dad shared with me just all these, his heart, he was like, I'm, he apologized. 

He, um, he told me stuff that changed the way I felt about how he approached it because I understood his trauma more. And on top of that, he's 83.

When I, when I left his house, he said that he heard a sermon about being a better father a year ago. And every night he's been praying about how to be a better father to me. In his 80s. He's praying. Never too late. And it's never too late. God works in that moment that I had with them was like parting of the Red Sea miraculous Because I felt like I laid down a burden that was like ten thousand pounds because I connected with my parents They gave me the blessing for this freaking book.

I never would have asked them if I hadn't written it 

Kim Gravel: He gave you permission to lay down the burden. Y'all, what burden are you needing to lay down? That's a word. I have an irrational fear of blank. 

Nancy French: Nougat. I hate nougat. Even saying it makes, I don't, 

Kim Gravel: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

That is the best rapid fire question answer I have ever heard in my entire life. Okay, define nougat for those who are like going, what the what? I mean, I, I get it. I get it. Okay, 

Nancy French: Snickers has, Nougat, and it's, I don't know, not, it's not the caramel. Nougat's not, okay. It's like that tan stuff. 

Zac Miller: Yeah, what is nougat?

Let me see. 

Nancy French: It looks like flesh. Oh, I just, I hate it so much.

Kim Gravel: Oh God, now you're making me want to gag. Okay. And I hate the word I love nougat. I hate the word moist. I hate the word moist, and so you hate the word 

Zac Miller: Okay, nougat is made with sugar or honey that's cooked and whipped with eggs to like, make it airy.

That's what nougat is. 

Nancy French: Yeah, we don't need that. 

Kim Gravel: Nougat is like three musketeers, the fluffy stuff inside a three musketeer. Oh, she can't do nougat. 

Nancy French: No. 

Zac Miller: That's so irrational. Why? 

Nancy French: Yeah, I don't know. It can make my butt big, Zac. That's legitimate. 

Kim Gravel: That's a good excuse. I like it. Yeah. All right. Yeah.

Okay. Well, we're going to keep this going because this is great. My favorite junk food is 

Nancy French: chocolate and peanut butter. Any combination. Like Reese's. Reese's. But I have a great New York Times recipe for, those cups. They're so good with chocolate with the peanut butter. I put a little, anyway, it's so good.

They're so easy to make. 

Kim Gravel: Oh, give me that recipe. 

Nancy French: I will. 

Kim Gravel: Okay. Okay. My celebrity crush is Ooh. Mm. Make it good, too. Don't give me somebody really smart. I want somebody hot. Oh, not that you can't be smart and hot at the same time. That can't Oh my gosh. Don't judge me for that. 

Nancy French: Oh, okay. Oh, well, I don't think you're gonna think he's hot.

But I look great. I don't care. My favorite actor in the world is Brian Cranston and I got to see him in a play in New York and he is so amazing. I would watch him do 

Kim Gravel: Let me look him up. I don't, I don't even know who 

Nancy French: Breaking Bad. Did you not watch Breaking What? Kim? He was on Malcolm in the Middle? 

Kim Gravel: Oh, yeah.

You know Brian Cranston. You think he's hot? I mean, I would say he's, like, interesting. 

Nancy French: Well, he's interesting. I don't know. I don't know if he's hot, but that's Like,

Kim Gravel: Jason Momoa is hot, right? Oh, right. Like, Brad Pitt is hot. 

Nancy French: Oh, is Jason Momoa in Aquaman. 

Kim Gravel: Yeah. Good lord, honey. Okay, my husband Under the sea, honey.

I want to be Little Mermaid, okay? My next book will be about, 

Nancy French: like I don't know if I'll write about cancer or not, but I, I feel, I don't know. I don't even have, like, this burning desire to write anything. I, I like investigating. I sort of love this true crime stuff, so I'm doing projects on that.

I love it too. Yeah. 

Kim Gravel: Don't you love that? 

Nancy French: Yeah. Well, we gotta get ready for our podcast. 

Kim Gravel: I think true crime with, no, what, how, what we name it? Hillbilly and redneck true crime. People watch that. 

Nancy French: Which one are you? You're the redneck. 

Kim Gravel: I'm the redneck. You can be the hillbilly. 

Nancy French: That's it. I like it. 

Kim Gravel: We can do hillbilly and redneck true crime with Zac.

Nancy French: Zac, you have to be the white trash.

Zac Miller: I feel like that makes me sound like I am the redneck. He's a New Yorker, honey. He's a New Yorker. Yeah, I'm a northerner. I don't get called redneck. I get called a lot of other things. No, they don't. Yeah. They don't. 

Kim Gravel: You don't get called anything. Zac is like one of the, one of the good ones out there.

I'm telling you. He's one of the good ones. 

Nancy French: Oh, that's so beautiful.

Zac Miller: I just, I just hey you. Get out of the way. That's it.

Kim Gravel: I love it. Yeah. But no, I say this all the time. New Yorkers and Southerners are very similar. It's, we just had to bless your heart. We're direct too. But you, we just had to bless your heart.

Y'all just say, Hey, what do you want?

Nancy French: Yeah. That's right. Yeah, that's right. 

Kim Gravel: All right, everybody, y'all got to go pick up Nancy's book, Ghosted, An American Story. When I tell you, Nancy, I think it's going to be a New York Times bestseller, my friend. I really do. 

Nancy French: I hope it is. I'm thankful. I'm thankful to have written it.

And I just hope it resonates with other people who feel politically, spiritually, culturally homeless in these weird times. I think there's more of us than we think. 

Kim Gravel: Oh, I think it's the majority of us and it's available everywhere books and audio books are sold. You can find Nancy on her website nancyfrench. com and you can follow her on Twitter or we call it now x at nancyafrench or on Instagram and threads at nancyjanefrench. I love you sis. Thank you for being here. You have to come back when the next book is out. 

Nancy French: All right. We're going to do a podcast and a million more books. We just have to keep hanging out.

Kim Gravel: We have to keep hanging out. And I do have an idea for a book that I want to talk to you about. 

Nancy French: All right. Tell me when you're free. 

Kim Gravel: Tell me when you're free. And your book is coming out next, so we can't do a podcast that soon because we've already just done this one, but we're about five weeks. You got to be back.

Okay. Sounds good. 

Zac Miller: We need another book. Yeah. 

We need another book. 

Nancy French: Sounds great. Thank you for having me. I love you. I love you, Kim. 

Kim Gravel: I love you more. 

Zac Miller: Thank you. 

Nancy French: Bye.

Kim Gravel: Okay, y'all. I have another listener rapid fire question this week. And here it is. And this is a good one, I love this. What is the petty fight you have over and over? With your spouse. Oh I've got a good one for this sec. And are you right? Okay, put your answer in the comments or send me your answer by connecting with me on my website kimgravelshow.

com this is going to be a fun one. I can't wait to hear all your answers. 

Zac Miller: What's your answer kim? Yeah before 

Kim Gravel: should I give it now? I guess i'll give it now. So our petty fight is Do or do you not flush the toilet? after you go number one. Travis does not want to flush the toilet to conserve water. I'm like, flush it regardless.

And we have that fight over and over. Oh my God. Okay, y'all. I want to hear yours. 

Zac Miller: Kim, haven't you heard? If it's yellow, let it mellow. 

Kim Gravel: Yes, I've heard it. And if it mellows, it mellows throughout the whole entire house. So you walk in and it smells like pee. 

Zac Miller: You know, no, you know, no, too much asparagus in the Gravel House.

I think that's it. 

Kim Gravel: Oh my God. It's getting gross. Okay. Jesus. Take the wheel. Okay. All right. And now before we go, I have another listener voicemail this week from a woman who realized she needs to shift her own perception. Yes. But that segment is only for the newsletter subscribers. So you're not going to hear it right now.

You got to go and subscribe to the newsletter. My newsletter is free and it's the best way to get exclusive show content. So if you want to hear these wonderful extras that go on behind the scenes at the KimGravelShow.com, go to KimGravelShow.com and sign up. 

The Kim Gravel Show is produced and edited by Zac Miller at Uncommon Audio. Our associate producer is Kathleen Grant, the Brunette Exec. Production help from Emily Bredin and Sara Noto. Our cover art is designed by Sanaz Huber at Memarian Creative, and Mike Kligerman edits the show.Our guest booking is done by Central Talent Booking. 

And I want to give a special thank you to the entire team at QVC and thanks to you for making this community so strong. Listen, tell somebody about the show and leave us a five star review and make sure you're following the Kim Gravel Show on your podcast app so we can keep growing this love who you are message together.

I can't do this without you. So thank you so much for listening and y'all I love you with everything I got.