*This transcript was auto-generated*

Introduction:

This is The Kim Gravel Show. 

Kim:

What was it like working with Oprah?

Liz Dolan:

Being good at something is the way to build confidence.

Kim:

Over 50 as a woman, you have this freedom and independence that you felt like you didn't have in those 30s and 40s. What do you think holds us back from really taking those risks?

Liz Dolan:

What's the worst that could happen? Do you think you're never going to get a job again? Back off, Jack. I have all year to figure out my new purpose. It's not what do you want to be when you grow up, it's who you better stay in this, because this is where the world is going. And why would you want the world to leave you behind?

Kim:

Hey, y'all. Kim Gravel here. And it is time for the Kim Gravel Show. I have a good one for you today. My guest is a powerhouse businesswoman. She was the chief marketing officer for the Oprah Winfrey Network, Nike, and National Geographic. I'm telling you. She has been the director of the Magic Boost, a training program to mentor and diversify the next generation of voices in track and field.

Kim:

She's been on the list of 100 most powerful people in sports. She's been on the list of 100 most powerful women in cable and has been awarded marketer of the year. She is here to talk about taking risk. Oh, y'all, don't we need to hear that. Being a boss and getting your message out there and the gender biases she's faced in the workplace. But here's the wild part. She's in her 60s, but this is another wild part. She has just returned back to school.

Kim:

She is attending Stanford University's Distinguished Careers Institute, and she's podcasting all about it on her brand new show called Lizness School. Let's welcome Liz is Dolan.

Liz Dolan:

Oh, my God. This singing intro kills me every time. Thank you so much.

Kim:

It's. It's the best thing ever. And we spare no expense. I gotta say, reading your resume, I thought, what in the world is. Good Lord, I got too much to talk to you about. But the first question, just right off the bat, I'm sure you get this all the time. What was it like working with Oprah? And what kind of boss was she?

Liz Dolan:

Oh, my God, it was really great. I was there at the very beginning of the cable network, so I was in the Los Angeles office. She was still in Chicago, but then she would come visit a lot. And, you know, I mean, you like when someone is the same person in the room with you as they are, you know, when they're out in public. And she was totally that way. Super. I felt like she really wanted to hear the truth about things. And I think that's the main thing you want in a boss.

Liz Dolan:

You just want someone that wants you to tell them the truth. And sometimes the more powerful you are and the richer you are, maybe you edit those people out of your life. But. But I never felt that way with her at all. So it was. It was really a lot of fun. Plus, I got to have dinner Montecito once. Kim.

Liz Dolan:

So, you know.

Kim:

Oh, God.

Liz Dolan:

Career highlight.

Kim:

Did you ever get her favorite things? Swag. That's the most important thing. Ok.

Liz Dolan:

I know.

Kim:

Hi. You can't have it all. Liz can't have it all. Ok. I just. Before we were on the show, we were kind of just chit chatting and talking and laughing. First of all, your hair is fantastic. Your glasses rock.

Kim:

Your lips are everything. We got to talk about that lip color. And if I can make it, I need to know what you.

Liz Dolan:

Of course. How could I do any less than this?

Kim:

The lips tell me everything I need to know about you because I have just come up with my new personal motto. Right. So this was what I was getting ready to tell you earlier. I'm telling you that everybody, match my energy. I say to everybody, match my energy. If you go, come work with me and be a part of my team. And your personal motto is stay noisy. I bet you something.

Liz Dolan:

I think we might be twins or I think we might be or separated at birth somehow. Is that possible?

Kim:

Tell me what I think I know what that means, but you gotta tell me what your personal motto, stay noisy means to you.

Liz Dolan:

Okay.

Kim:

I love that.

Liz Dolan:

The thing about match my energy. What I love about that on satellite Sisters, the podcast I do with my sisters, we have a newsletter that is called Pep Talk because we feel like that's part of our job to put positive energy out into the world. And I feel like you are a full time pep talk. You are just a living, breathing pep talk. So good.

Kim:

You know, I try. I try, right? I mean, to me, it's hard sometimes, but.

Liz Dolan:

No, for sure.

Kim:

Okay. But stay noisy.

Liz Dolan:

Noisy.

Kim:

Oh, my God.

Liz Dolan:

Noisy. I sort of came to this about halfway through my career. I realized and I think women have a tendency to do this. We. We hold back a little bit, thinking maybe other people really are smarter than we are, or we don't speak up in meetings, or we don' we don't really let our full ideas be heard. And I got to the point when I was like, well, in my 50s where I was like, no, this is crazy. These people aren't any smarter or more creative or more anything than me. So I just really need to put my ideas into the world.

Liz Dolan:

And it particularly happened, I mean, on Satellite Sisters, we used to say that all the time. Just speak up for what you really think. But also, I had a bad corporate experience with a company I was on the board of, and so. And I was tempted to just. Just quietly go away. Liz, just don't. Don't make a big deal about it. And then I'm like, wait a minute.

Liz Dolan:

No. So. So that's when I really started using stay noisy as a. As a banner.

Kim:

Well, and I love it. Like I said the other day to my son, who is a senior, he's getting ready to go to college in a few months, and he's kind of nervous. And I said, listen, go let your freak flag fly. And he said, mom, that does not mean what you think it means. So I'm going to tell him to stay noisy.

Liz Dolan:

Well, I think what the kids say now or what you hear in workplaces now is, bring your full self. Right.

Kim:

Okay. Well, that sounds more intelligent. So, yes, I'm going to use that.

Liz Dolan:

Just bring your full self to work. Bring your full self to school. Just bring your full self to your actual life.

Kim:

Okay, but why do we think we don't do that, Liz? I mean, because there's a lot of people listening to you right now. That is in our age demographic. Women who are, I don't know, single again, empty nesters. They have their time back, okay. From their families or whatever the case, the circumstance. It's like over 50 as a woman. And I want you to speak to this. You have this freedom and independence that you felt like you didn't have in those 30s and 40s.

Kim:

Fully.

Liz Dolan:

Mm.

Kim:

What do you. What do you say to that?

Liz Dolan:

I completely agree with you. You know, in your 30s and 40s. I'll just speak about myself.

Kim:

Go ahead.

Liz Dolan:

I don't have to cover all women. You can. But, you know, it does apply, I think, in there, especially in those career years. You just. You just want to make sure you're accepted into the group, that you're making progress. If there's a ladder that you're kind of climbing it, you're not making any enemies. And so I think women especially are encouraged to edit ourselves all along the way. Also, sometimes, even when we do try to stay noisy, they're not listening, Kim, have you noticed that?

Kim:

Oh, yeah.

Liz Dolan:

So it's not. Sometimes it's not that we're not saying it.

Kim:

It's.

Liz Dolan:

That it's the hearing part that's not happening. And I think that for me, anyway, once I got into my 50s, I was like, yeah, I'm not holding back anymore. This is ridiculous. And it's not stay noisy in the sense of get mad about things. It's more, say what you really think. Don't. Don't edit yourself. Don't assume that other people know more than you do.

Liz Dolan:

I have found this late, this later part of my life hugely liberating for that reason. Like, I. And I one time I said that, like, I no longer feel the imposter syndrome at all. And I got some. I got some bounce back from that. People like, oh, come on. You might. And like, well, yes, of course, sometimes you feel a little bit nervous, but do I feel a little insecurity?

Kim:

A little insecurity? Yeah. That's. That's human nature. Yeah.

Liz Dolan:

Yes. But do I feel like I'm faking it anymore? No, I do not. I do not feel like I'm. Like, I ever have to fake it. And to me, that's what the imposter syndrome is, that you are not worthy of whatever situation you're in. I'm. I'm worthy. You are.

Kim:

We're worthy.

Liz Dolan:

I just decided, and as are you. You know, you speak up, you put yourself out into the world. You earned it.

Kim:

This is what happened to me growing up. I. I have the best girl dad ever. So my dad was always a straight shooter. Mom and dad both. But I think girls who have strong male role models and father figures in their life really do benefit from it in the long run. And he used to tell me, growing up, the things that you're saying right now. And I remember I was kind of fearless.

Kim:

Like, when I was in high school, I was like, bump that. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. And I was even like, look cocky, you know, stupid young. But I was empowered, you know what I'm saying? And then I went out into the world and started comparing. And don't you see women do that? We start looking going, I'm not like that. She's prettier, she's taller. She's smarter.

Kim:

She's got more degrees. And I think when I got 50, I was like, oh, she's my friend. Let's help each other. Let's lock arm. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, do you think. Do you think that's that imposter syndrome, like, Lane, that we all as women walk through.

Liz Dolan:

Yeah. And obviously, so many of the role models in. Not so much in parenting, obviously, but like, professionally. So many of the role models are men. There are people that are different than us in any way. Maybe more qualifications. What does that even mean in the world anymore? I mean, we are all creating our own jobs, our own worlds, our own businesses. Look at you.

Liz Dolan:

So who's more qualified to do the Kim Gravel show than Kim Gravel? Nobody.

Kim:

Nobody.

Liz Dolan:

Nobody.

Kim:

God bless them if they can. Please take it. That's why I say God love you.

Zac:

I've been trying to replace her for years.

Kim:

For years.

Liz Dolan:

And let me just tell you something, Liz.

Kim:

I work with my family, too. I work with my sister and like, my best friend who's like my sister. So, girl, when you can work with family, you can run any Fortune 500 company on the planet. Okay?

Liz Dolan:

Totally.

Kim:

I'm qualified, baby. We're qualified.

Liz Dolan:

Yes. One thing that I have loved about working with my sisters all these years, because we launched satellite sisters in 2000 and we were on the radio.

Kim:

That wasn't even a thing then. Podcasts weren't even a thing. Okay.

Liz Dolan:

We had a radio show for a while and then it became a podcast in like 2008. So I feel like we are OG podcasters. You are. You're the original. And it's just been a pleasure the whole time. But my favorite part of working with my sister, well, we always say it works because we work together by ourselves. You know, we have never gone to the same office. We don't.

Liz Dolan:

We've never been in the same studio. We work together by ourselves. So that's.

Kim:

You have your own space.

Liz Dolan:

That's key number one. But key number two to working with your family is that you learn that. Like your little sister who used to totally bug you when you were 12 and she was 9. She's got some skills now. She can do the spreadsheets or she understands, like the insurance we need to buy, or everyone has been, guess what? They've all learned a few tricks. They have. They have personal skills, they have professional skills. And so you begin to see them in a whole new way.

Liz Dolan:

And you know how they always say that everyone goes home for Thanksgiving and reverts to their 13 year old self? Well, that doesn't happen to us anymore because we've learned all these new things about each other and have, you know, both personal and professional respect for each other. It's just been really great for our whole family. We also have three brothers, so there are eight of us all together. And so you just have to, you have to really want to get along. And we do, and it's been great.

Kim:

Well, that's a blessing. I will say though, talk about like, match your energy. And I love stay noisy. You are such a life force. I can just tell talking to you right now.

Liz Dolan:

You're so nice.

Kim:

I'm like, I'm really not that nice. People think that. It's a really big misconception. I'm very.

Liz Dolan:

Okay, you're real. Whatever.

Kim:

That's it. Thank you. I'm earnest. I'll take that. There's another model you have. You say it's never too late. And I'm telling you, you are speaking to the Kim Gravel show audience right now. What do you mean? I know what you.

Kim:

Well, I think I know what you mean. What preach to us about that. That it's never too late. Liz. I love that.

Liz Dolan:

Well, I feel especially for women in our 50s and 60s, I mean, maybe the world wants to tell you that you're washed up or that like whatever you were doing, just stick with that, just ride that to the end. And I have not found that to be the case at all. So I. Well, look at me. I'm back at school. I. I was going to say I went to college in the 70s and have not been back in school since then. I never went to graduate school or anything.

Liz Dolan:

I've just been working and doing things. And last year, sort of at the end of the pandemic, I started to feel like I have to do something dramatically different with my life. I think I was going to say.

Kim:

How did you do that? I know, but I was like, how did you get to Stanford University? I mean, it's.

Liz Dolan:

Stanford has this program called the Distinguished Careers Institute where they take 40 fellows a year. And we come to Stanford and we get to take whatever we want at the whole university. I can go to the med school, Kim, if I want to, I can go to the law school. I'm not doing any of those things in the first quarter. But they just created a special program where people that have far ranging interests but are trying to think about what is their purpose for this next phase of your life? Yes, exactly. I hear. Okay, here's what I heard. Maybe because I'm a marketing person, I love when people have three good pillars of their business.

Liz Dolan:

And so the DCI is three. They said this is about purpose, this is about community. Because we're in a cohort of 40, but we're in this larger university community which is so broad and fun and diverse and it's about wellness because we're at a stage in our lives where we just can't not pay attention to that. And so I was, you know, home alone in Santa Monica, trying to dig my way out of the pandemic. I had also injured myself badly in an accident. And I was like, that is exactly what I need in my life right now. That combination of things. But the idea of leaving the work I was working on, moving to Palo Alto, it's, it's a leap, but I can adorn room.

Kim:

Are you back? I mean, are you in your dorm room now?

Liz Dolan:

I'm in a low end furnished apartment. It's okay, I'll take it. One nice thing about it. It's pretty much looks like a West Elm showroom in here. If I could show you around. It's nice. West ELM SAMPLE sale and I'll take.

Kim:

That if it's already decorated for me. And yes, the idea of you stepping into Stanford and risk taking, has, has that been a, A, a thing that's defined your whole career?

Liz Dolan:

Yes.

Kim:

Talk to about risk taking.

Liz Dolan:

For instance, like you mentioned that I was chief marketing officer at Nike. I was and I loved it. And it would, that you can imagine that's a super fun job, very satisfying. And I was there for 10 years, so that was my 30s. But I actually went in and I quit that job on my 40th birthday because I just wanted to do something different. And what I had in my head is the idea of starting a women's talk show that ultimately became Satellite Sisters. But this was 1998. And I remember saying to people, they would say, how could you quit a job like that? And I'd say, well, I have the same.

Liz Dolan:

That women need to be heard more and I'm going to work on that. And people, people would say, no, seriously, what are you going to do? What is.

Kim:

What's called pay the bills? Yeah. People were looking at.

Liz Dolan:

Yeah, I know, I know. So the, so I look back, I did do that. I've, I've, I have quit some really great jobs in my, in my career.

Kim:

Do you regret it?

Liz Dolan:

No. No. And, but okay, I understand that I was in a fortunate position in that like I'm a single woman with no kids. I'm not putting anyone through college. I'm not, I don't have a lot of, I don't have a lot of bills. Look at me in my little student apartment. I feel like I have a pretty low overhead. But also I had been successful in my career, so I knew I could afford to Take a few risks.

Liz Dolan:

And I understand that. That many people are not in that position. But that put even more pressure on me, Kim. Like, well, if I can't do it, who can? I can really try whatever I want. And my friend Rosemary would always say to me, what's the worst that could happen? Do you think you're never going to get a job again? And I'm like, no, I think I could get another job if I wanted a job. So I'm here at school for a year. Hopefully this will help me think about my purpose and what I want to do.

Kim:

Sure, sure.

Liz Dolan:

But I don't think that purpose in this phase of my life is going to be going back to some corporate job.

Kim:

That's what I was going to say. Like, what does purpose mean to you? Because I think that's the big get in life for all of. I think that's. We're always on the journey of finding our. Why.

Liz Dolan:

Yes. Yes.

Kim:

Even in my career, Liz, I always say people when we're developing product or talking to the team, like, why the buy? So why the life? Don't you think that's the big question?

Liz Dolan:

No, I agree. And if you're. If you get to the point where you can take a step back and really look at the big picture and really think about, you know, purpose and community and your health all in one big package, because it is, you know, that one of the things I learned during the pandemic is your community is everything is everything.

Kim:

Right? It's everything.

Liz Dolan:

It's just everything. You know, whether it's your family, I'm super tight with my family, but also my circle of friends, neighbors in my building, all of those kinds of things.

Kim:

We crave it. We crave connections. We crave it.

Kim:

Yes, ma'am.

Liz Dolan:

So you asked me about my purpose, and what I said to them when I arrived here a month ago is, back off, Jack. I have all year to figure out my new purpose.

Kim:

I got time, baby.

Liz Dolan:

I got time. But I'll tell you what I. What I know. I love. What I. And I've really discovered over the last 10 years that I love is the working with young people or small businesses or things who have, like, a lot of good ideas. But. But there are barriers in their way to.

Liz Dolan:

To achieving what they want to achieve. Like, you mentioned the Magic Boost program. So that's a program that I run with a couple of my friends. There are a lot of great young content creators in the sports world. They're great. And, you know, and they tend to be especially Women and people of color who do not have the same sort of path into some of these companies or ways of figuring it out. So this program helps those kinds of content creators find real jobs or start real businesses in the media landscape, which, as you know, is so crazy. Now, like you, do you want to go work for NBC or do you want to start your own thing? You can do either.

Liz Dolan:

You can do either. So coaching these young people to make these fearless decisions about their own careers, I find that I've really, really enjoyed that more than anything else.

Zac:

On your website for Magic Boost, I was looking at it earlier today and you have this stat right on the cover that women reporters are only 14% of sports reporters.

Kim:

That's crazy. I know these kind of programs where so many. The kids are lost, people are lost today on this whole purpose journey. I think, I think that's like, seriously, how many self help books can we write about it? I wrote one about it. So I know it's. It's like it is a journey, though. I don't know if purpose is destination, but like, yes, right. You say your passion is to really point young people and people in general, women too, in the direction of their purpose.

Kim:

What is the one thing or two things that you, when you're talking to people about this particular subject? How to break into something, holds them back that we all have in common. What do you think holds us back from really taking those risks and, you know, putting ourselves out there?

Liz Dolan:

I think you use, you already used the word fearless, Kim. I think it's fear, which is completely understandable. Why shouldn't you be afraid? You have to keep a roof over your head. You have to keep gas in your car. You have to do a. You just can't do whatever you want professionally. You got it? You have to make a living. And so the fear that this is something I'm good at, there is a demand for this, but can I really support myself doing this? I think that is hard for people.

Liz Dolan:

I also think for, well, like young women in the business, they don't often see themselves or I take that back because now there are loads of female role models in sports media. So they do see themselves. It's just that the landscape for media in general, as, you know, look at you and look at all the things you do. It's so different than it would have been like 20 years ago where your goal would have been to get a job at a network or, you know, to work for a team or something. Now you can really start something that is completely yours. Like, there's a young woman in the Magic Boost program. Her name is Tiara Williams. It's been amazing to watch her after over the last four years, sort of build her way.

Liz Dolan:

She started an Instagram thing, then she was doing a YouTube channel. And just yet yesterday she launched her own talk show called Spill the Tea. In collaboration, Michael Johnson, the athlete is starting a brand new track and field league. And she's now the official talk show of this new track and field league. And I was watching her, like, what she was posting on Instagram. She like, she manifested the sports talk show that she always wanted, but she works like a dog and she is not afraid. She is not afraid. For young people working in the media landscape, you have to be totally fearless because it's going to change and change again and change again.

Liz Dolan:

So if you're afraid, find some other kind of business. To begin, we're going to take a.

Kim:

Quick, short break, but when we come back, more with Liz. I've got some questions about is TV dying? And purpose and so much more. Come right back.

Liz Dolan:

So much, so much, so much.

Kim:

All right, we're back. Liz is with us, and we're talking all things purpose, risk taking, putting yourself out there and staying noisy. I love that motto. I'm going to adopt that one, too. We're letting freak Flag go. We're adopting Stay noisy Liz. TV is dying, or that's at least what they're saying. Are young people not even trying to get on major TV network anymore? I mean, seriously, like, is it.

Kim:

Is the wave of the future technology?

Liz Dolan:

Yes, for sure. And now all the technology is changing, too. So, you know, think about it when you're. When you're in our age group, Kim, we lived through the transition from the analog economy to the digital economy. I remember now I feel like we are living through the transition from the digital economy to the AI economy.

Kim:

I love AI.

Liz Dolan:

You love it?

Kim:

I love it so much. Oh, my gosh. I.

Liz Dolan:

Can I just tell you we're embracing the new technology.

Kim:

What's not to embrace, honey? This is a miracle worker because. Okay, we have. Can we talk? Because you're taking an AI class, right? Okay, tell us all about it.

Liz Dolan:

If I'm at Stanford, then I should at least leave here in a year understanding artificial intelligence, even if I don't know how to build a large language model.

Kim:

I'm not even so sure it's artificial. I'm serious, like it is.

Liz Dolan:

So you are a believer. I like it.

Kim:

I'm bought, you know, and look, and you know, some people like, because, you know, I'm in the south and my mom's like, that ain't nothing but the devil. I'm like, well, honey, there's some angels up in there too, because that has gotten me through a many of presentations. AI, let's talk about that. Because so many people don't understand it. My son tried to explain it to me. Liz, is this true? He's like, mom, it can't create. It can only make what you create better. Is that the truth?

Liz Dolan:

Yes, I believe that. And right now, maybe it can't even make it better, but someday it will be able to do that, right?

Kim:

I mean, what I do better, it can make what I do better.

Liz Dolan:

Okay, maybe it makes you better, but sometimes you might also. It might make you wrong, Kim. Like, wow, that's true. I was talking to a friend last night about the World Series. He's like, I was checking something in, like, chatgpt about the last time. Two teams, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the answer that came back was just completely false. So, yeah, like, you gotta be careful, be forewarned.

Liz Dolan:

But it the shortcoming for creative people. You're obviously a creative person. I like to think of myself as a creative person. Is exactly what your son said. It can't do anything original. It can. It only knows what has already been fed into it. So you just have to bear that in mind.

Liz Dolan:

And so don't be afraid of it, because I'm just a big believer the human being. We may not be faster, we may not calculate like, but we can. We will always be the ones that can be more original. Which is why you need to prioritize those kinds of skills instead of, you know, it's a good thing I'm not like a accountant.

Kim:

Right, Right.

Liz Dolan:

We need more views in the world, whatever. Because really the robots are going to do all of that now. And we just have to be our original creative selves, which I think is good for people like us.

Kim:

Well, and it never ends, right? It's prolific. Creativity is something I think for a long time, even like through the 80s and even a little bit of the 90s. Oh, how can I say this without getting like, lamb blasted here, Liz? It was. It was a little copycat. I think now the age of real, true creativity as far as art. And we have the tools. We have the tools. That's what I'm trying to say.

Kim:

We have the tools.

Zac:

Can I ask a question, though? I want to push back on this a little bit because I feel like I'm a little more AI Skeptical than you, Kim. And is it dehumanizing?

Kim:

No judgment.

Zac:

Are these tools taking the human out of some of the art? And I don't know where I fall on this. I've been thinking about this a lot and I'm really curious to know your take.

Liz Dolan:

Here's what I think. I'm actually taking a class next semester that's called the Sociological and Economic Implications of Artificial Intelligence, which I know sounds like a huge mouthful, but it's just. That's the part I want to know is how is it going to change the landscape? Because I think there are lots of people that will no longer have jobs and I think we really have to come to grips with that as a nation and as a culture. What are we going to do about that? And can AI replace a lot of the things that even creative people do? Like if you're obviously writers in Hollywood are worried about that. People that are artists and do animation, they're worried about that. So it is going to be hard. People are really going to have to fight for their gift to be shown and for there to be a market for what they do. Because for a lot of people, what they do.

Liz Dolan:

Oh, even. Okay, let's just talk about self driving cars.

Kim:

Well, I don't trust that at all.

Liz Dolan:

Oh, you.

Zac:

I'm a huge fan. I've done so funny, Kim.

Kim:

Now that's ridiculous. Now you won't write a. You won't take a marketing thing and write a marketing shit, but you get in a car that don't drive, it's no person in it. No, I don't trust that.

Liz Dolan:

Okay, that is funny to me, Kim, that you would trust AI to write your presentations but not to drive you to the train station.

Kim:

I don't. No, ma'am. Full disclosure. Totally fearful of that. Yeah.

Liz Dolan:

But overall with all of this, I think embracing the change is going to be the most important thing. Trying to stay on top of what are the implications for me, for my community, for people in certain kinds of jobs. And I wish someone, maybe somebody at the beginning of the digital revolution did tell me it was a revolution, but I didn't realize how much of a revolution.

Kim:

Much of a revolution. Well, I guess I look at it as a little bit of an opportunity because in my 50s and tell me how you stand on this, Liz, and even you too, Zac, how you feel about this. But I have become, I've really been very confident in stepping into my boss role where a lot of. I've been a boss for a long time and I've been A really leader in my own future. But I was always timid and shy even, I guess with this AI thing, I'm like, I'm the boss, AI. You work for me.

Liz Dolan:

Okay?

Kim:

And I have stepped into that role, which I think is an embrace, and we're the boss of our own lives. That's where I think women really, really struggle, because we give out so much to everybody. Our nurture nature is to always give. How do we become our own boss of our own life in our own destiny?

Liz Dolan:

Well, you know, I'm not necessarily an expert on that any more than anyone is.

Kim:

I think you kind of are.

Liz Dolan:

Well, I feel like I've made some good decisions to, like, if this isn't working for me or. Okay, let me.

Kim:

Yes.

Liz Dolan:

Well, when you say, like, you love being a boss, I have to say the most important thing to me now is not to be the boss, Kim.

Kim:

Okay?

Liz Dolan:

I am so tired of being the boss.

Kim:

You mean of other people?

Liz Dolan:

You mean, like, yeah, yeah, be the boss of me. Yes, that. That's why.

Kim:

That's what I love. That's what I love.

Liz Dolan:

That's why the whole podcast I'm doing about my experience this year is called. Called Lizness School. I love that 100% about Lizness, not business. And I just want to make decisions. Right. I love it.

Kim:

But see, that's what I'm talking about. Liz, how did you get there? Because that's. I think all women, especially women, want to feel that way. We want to have the Kimness school every. You know, that's what I'm saying. When I'm saying being the boss, I'm like having. Having your own say in your own life and doing what you want to do, not just always what you have to do. Is that what you're saying?

Liz Dolan:

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And I think the More women have a breadth of experience, both personally and professionally, that teaches them how skillful they are and how smart they are. It's very empowering to be good at something, whether it's your actual job or something you're doing in the home or something your kids appreciate or whatever it is. Being good at something is the way to build confidence. And I think because women, on the whole are trying more things, are being given more opportunities to do things on their own, I think it's naturally just going to make. Make us more confident because, you know, generations of being told, no, this is your lane. You stay over here, we'll take care of all the rest of it. I mean, obviously, we're over that.

Liz Dolan:

Right. And so it's. It's empowering to be good at something.

Kim:

Well, that's what I was talking about. You. You are totally a boss. I mean, I know you don't think, but you are, because you are leading by example. You know, it's. My friend said, being a good parent. She's not a parent. Okay.

Kim:

She said, being a good parent is not about what you say or do, is who you are. And I think being who you are, Liz, is giving a lot of people this empowered position in their own lives.

Liz Dolan:

Well, thanks. You know, seriously, I was thinking about this the other day because in 2001, my sisters and I wrote a memoir together about what it's like to grow up in a big family. And all five of us did different essays in the book. And it was really fun to do, though. Talk about working with your family. There were moments in that process could have gone more smoothly, but I know.

Kim:

Exactly what you mean. That's all you need to say. Got it.

Liz Dolan:

Just. Anyway, there is an essay that I wrote. The book is divided into five chapters about what we call the uncommon senses, which is sense of connection is the most important sense. Sense of self, sense of humor, sense of adventure, and sense of direction. Right.

Kim:

Nice.

Liz Dolan:

Those are the top five, Right? That's a good list. Right? Your sense of connection is always the most important thing in your life, but that's nothing if you don't have a sense of self. Anyway, so in the final chapter in Sense of direction, this is 20 years ago, I wrote an essay that was titled, like, it's not what do you want to be when you grow up? It's who and it explores.

Kim:

No, no, no, no, no. Stop. Say that again, Girl, you said that too fast.

Liz Dolan:

It's not what do you want to be when you grow up? It's who. Stop. So. And I sort of impressed myself looking back at that. I was like, that was a big idea 20 years ago. I think that people know that now.

Zac:

It's a big idea.

Kim:

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's a huge idea now. I do. I do. Come on, Liz. You got. Why you saved. The whole time we've been talking, you saved that to just now.

Kim:

Y'all. We have to stop on that for a hot minute. That is something you need to write that book, my love. That is huge. Say it one more time for the people in the cheap seats.

Liz Dolan:

Okay, it's not what do you want to be when you grow up? It's who.

Kim:

You need to write a Whole school curriculum to all young people to girl.

Liz Dolan:

Okay.

Kim:

Thank you so much for joining us on the Kim Gerard Show. Next week. We'll be talking.

Liz Dolan:

But you know, I hear people talking about that all the time, using all these different languages. But it's like, who are your role models? Where do you get your values? Who are. No, you don't. Okay, then let's talk about it some more.

Kim:

Liz, you have girl. And I'm an intuitive. I'm a person who I don't get lit up much. Okay. You know, but when I do, my spidey senses go. That is so profound. That. And it's a big concept, too.

Kim:

So it is. What is. What is going to. It's not what you want to be when you grow up, is who. How do you figure that out, Liz? Just. I mean, we ain't got that much time, but give me a little teaser.

Liz Dolan:

Well, obviously, this is the lifelong journey that we're all on, is getting more connected to the things that we want to model in the world. Right. So in the context of that particular essay I wrote about the people in my life who were teaching me specific things that I thought I would like to be more like my Aunt Virginia. I would like to be more. And I picked out certain people in my life and some of the traits they had or just the values with which they lived their life. And I thought, yeah, okay, that's on the list. I'm going to add like a touch of Aunt Virginia to a. A swirl.

Kim:

Yeah.

Liz Dolan:

A swirl of my dad and maybe some other person in public life that I liked, you know, and just sort of identifying the people that are really living their values and how are they doing that, paying attention to how they are doing that and making sure you're doing that in your. In your own life. Now, I'm not saying I was ever really good at it, but I. But I had already gotten to the point where I realized what your job is, aside from the practical things of. Yes, you need a roof over your head. You need to pay your bills in your car. You need, like, you need all those things. I'm not saying, but, you know, the real scale, the real.

Liz Dolan:

Where you're going to find your purpose is in your values. It's not going to be in your, you know, job description. Right.

Kim:

That. That is like when somebody says, what is your purpose? My purpose in life is not what I want to be when I grow up, but it's who that is. Your purpose?

Liz Dolan:

Yes.

Kim:

You've just defined what is. Because I don't think Anybody can say, your purpose is. You just defined it. Yeah, that's it.

Liz Dolan:

But I think there are a lot of people. I. I think it's very hard for young people now in an economy that is changing so quickly.

Kim:

It's. Oh, it's so expensive.

Liz Dolan:

Just be so focused on what is their job like, what is that? That is their identity. But I certainly did that when I was there. My. My job, my career was my whole identity camp. It totally was.

Kim:

And some people, it's their family.

Liz Dolan:

Yeah.

Kim:

You know, if you're in that stage of lives where you're rearing children and all that, maybe that. Because a lot of people say, well, Mike, my purpose in life is to be a mom. I'm like, no, it's just what you do in. In your purpose right now. But that's not your. Oh, my gosh.

Liz Dolan:

I'll tell you something funny. I told you about how I. How I quit my job on my 40th birthday. So, I mean, that was bold, right? Total. Especially because it was Nike.

Kim:

You don't.

Liz Dolan:

So, yeah. And my boss at the time, my boss was Phil Knight, who was the founder of the company. So that's who I had to quit to. It's not like I was. Anyway, so I remember. I remember sitting with him and saying, like, I've just decided I need to move on with my life. I love it here. It's been great, but I need to tell you some new and different things.

Liz Dolan:

And he said to me, he said, but you can't do that. You're not just Liz Dolan. You're Nike's Liz Dolan. That's how everyone in the world knows you. And I was like, wow. If you wanted to say the one thing that would 100% convince me that I am doing the right thing, you just, you know. But whether it's okay. So I was Nike's Liz Dolan.

Liz Dolan:

That's kind of a grandiose thing, but everyone has a smaller or a different version of that where you're the one who always gets stuff done in the office, or you're the one. Like, that is not enough. I think we all know that it's not enough, but we don't know what to do about it. So you have to be a little fearless.

Kim:

And you. And you have just described every single mom or grandmom or what sitting at home. But they feel like they're just Beau's mom. They're just Jenny's mom. Girl, I don't know what this is about. But you. I. Please write the Book, or at least AI it so I can buy it.

Liz Dolan:

Okay.

Kim:

Okay.

Liz Dolan:

I will talk to my chatbot as soon as we're done and see if my chat pad can get started.

Kim:

Okay. Okay.

Zac:

Liz, can I break in for a second? Kim, can I ask you a question? Sure. I just. I have a question that you made me think of, which is you're still, like. You're still introduced on this show as, like, you know, former chief marketing officer at Nike. Right. This title that you sort of ran away from is still, in many ways, sort of defining who you are. Like, you have a huge title like that that's going to be part of, you know what. Like, that's gonna be the first line in, you know, every presentation, every introduction of you.

Liz Dolan:

I thought you were gonna say in my obituary, but good, you did.

Zac:

I wasn't going dark. But, like, how does that make you feel, like. Cause you did sort of run away from that, and you don't want that to define you anymore. And how long did it define you? You know what I mean? Like, that's so interesting to me.

Liz Dolan:

That's such a smart question, because I didn't want it to rule my life. But is it helpful sometimes to have a set of credentials so you can get in the door places or get another job or get. So I don't want to look like I'm some hero running away from prestige and money and power. And I can. I like having a little bit of all of those things.

Kim:

Me, too.

Liz Dolan:

You know, would be nice. I just didn't want to devote, like, every waking minute of my life to being that. That person. So I have a blend since that moment, you know, and that's obviously more than 20 years ago, because I'm in my 60s. I have moved in and out of corporate jobs into more creative jobs. If I tried to map for you my actual career path, it's super unusual because I'm like, I'm off here doing Satellite Sisters as a podcast for a while, but then I'm working for Oprah. But then I'm back now Satellite Sisters. Now we're writing books, speeches.

Liz Dolan:

So I don't know. I, like, I never fully gave that up, because who doesn't love a little bit of that, you know? And it is what I did it.

Kim:

But it doesn't. It doesn't. It doesn't define you, really. It's just part of what your journey to. To living your who. Right?

Liz Dolan:

I mean, like. Like, I love the fact that this year my job title is fellow.

Kim:

That is, let me tell y'all, something from somebody who's just street smart. I don't even know what that means, but it sounds fancy.

Liz Dolan:

It sounds so grandiose.

Kim:

What does, what does fellow mean?

Liz Dolan:

See, people, my friends, when I told them I'm going to be a Fellow at Stanford, they assumed that I was going to be teaching at Stanford. And I'm like, oh, no, no, this is a way better gig than that. I'm a student. I get to just go to class. I don't have to do anything.

Kim:

I mean, there's no pressure. You don't have to make straight As.

Liz Dolan:

I don't even have to take the exams, Kim.

Kim:

I don't have to do any of that.

Liz Dolan:

Oh, my God. No.

Kim:

Oh, my God. Just found my new calling. I'm a Fellow too.

Liz Dolan:

Yes, we should all be fellows.

Zac:

This is a new reality show. You go to college with Liz, Bo.

Kim:

No, I was gonna go with Liz. Forget Beau, I'm trying to get rid of him.

Zac:

Okay, sure, but no, with your son.

Kim:

We're trying to get him, we're trying to get him out of the house. I'm going to live with Liz in my West End apartment.

Liz Dolan:

Yes.

Kim:

Next door.

Liz Dolan:

It's okay, you know, Stanford is Stanford for a reason. It's pretty nice operation. I had never really spent any time here before. I like it.

Kim:

Do they have a good cafeteria? Do they have a good cafeteria?

Liz Dolan:

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Kim:

Okay. And you know, they got a Starbucks.

Liz Dolan:

Oh, yeah. All over the cafe.

Kim:

Okay.

Liz Dolan:

I enjoy the pool, it's all very nice, but it's, you know, it's like you have a lot of people who have been thinking about things for a long time, long time. And working on things. And what I like about it is that they're experts in things, but they're not pundits, they're scholars. It's different. And I know scholars sounds very highfalutin, but they've really thought about this and they've really researched it.

Kim:

They've got experience to match their knowledge.

Liz Dolan:

Pundit that wants to spout off on something. And sometimes I have no idea what they're saying. I, they, I even in my art history class yesterday, I like the professor, he's sort of a flight of fancy and he's talking about things. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna write this down because I have no idea what this means, but obviously I need to think about this.

Kim:

It's just so, you know what, it's stimulating. It's stimulating. And I think what I'm hearing You say is when you say stay noisy, stay out there in the game, you know, yes, keep, keep at it. It doesn matter. And you know, like you said, it's never too late too Liz.

Liz Dolan:

It's never too late. Okay, that reminds me. So another thing my sister Leanne, we talk about all the time on satellite Sisters, that because women and technology can often be a fraught relationship, right? Not so much everyone, but like, she's like, you know, when I'm in a meeting with someone and this is usually like charity organizations and things she's done, but when people say like, you know, I can't do that, I don't know how to do that. Which is different than you saying you're hiring Zac to do it for you. Right? That's a whole different thing. But she's like, when I see women just sort of taking themselves out of the conversation because it's technology, I feel like saying, come on, you better stay in this because this is where the world is going and why would you want the world to leave you behind? And that's, that's the way I feel now about this technology stuff. I don't have to learn how to create my own large language model, but if I don't understand it, then 10 years from now I'm going to be that person that can't even buy anything in a store. I remember when my mother, later in her life, she got a job and she had to operate some fancy new cash register and it was just beyond her at that point because she didn't know how to do that.

Liz Dolan:

And none of the 20 somethings in the store were to teach her how to do it. Like, I think we have to be aware that things are moving very quickly and we should try to keep up with them.

Kim:

Well, I have to tell you this because you're talking about your mother in the cash register. There's nothing more exciting than your 79 year old father obsessed with TikTok and getting TikToks. Curiously, it is the most amazing thing ever. The TikToks he send me, they're from medical things to people like pranks. I mean, it is just so he. I love what you're saying. Stay curious. And that's what you're doing.

Liz Dolan:

Yes. It goes back to fearlessness, right?

Kim:

Yeah.

Liz Dolan:

If you have a fear of your phone, you know, or a fear. I, I haven't signed up for TikTok yet because I have a little bit of an addictive personality and I'm afraid I will never come out of that rabbit hole.

Kim:

You Will not. I. I'm obsessed with TikTok, too. That and AI. I'm basically just a tech junkie who hates tech. So maybe I'm lying to myself. I'm Gen Z. Yes, I'm Gen Z.

Kim:

Yeah. Well, I want to say this, Liz, you have got to come back on when you develop and write this new book that I feel like you're going to write that I'm going to pick up and read. You need to come on and be back on the show. But I got to do something before you go, because I want to. I ask everybody. We do rapid fire, and you're going to have absolutely zip problem with this. So when I ask you the question, what comes up comes out. I don't.

Kim:

No hold back. I don't care what it is, what comes up.

Liz Dolan:

That's another way of saying stay noisy. Okay. All right. Yes.

Kim:

Go. Stay noisy.

Liz Dolan:

Inspired. Okay. Try me.

Kim:

No, I'm inspired today. Rapid fire. Questions. Who is the best boss you've ever had?

Liz Dolan:

The best boss I ever had, actually. Phil Knight, who I mentioned. There was one point in my career where he offered me a job that was big leap for what I had been doing. And I said something that you should never, ever say to a person trying to give you a promotion. I said, I don't think I'm qualified to do that. And you know what he said? He said, oh, you'll figure it out.

Kim:

You'll figure it out.

Liz Dolan:

And I just always thought that's what you want, is you always want a boss who believes you can figure it out. Whatever it is. If your boss doesn't believe that you can figure something out, go get a new boss. So that level of confidence in, like, yeah, I know you don't have any experience doing this, but I feel like you're. You are capable of this, even if you don't know you are.

Kim:

Well, does that relate to husbands, too? If they can't figure it out, should we ditch them?

Liz Dolan:

My area of expertise. I wish I could help them.

Kim:

Okay. All right. Well, that's another podcast.

Zac:

I have a question about Phil Knight. Real quick, because I'm just going to nerd out for a second. Like, I've read Shoe Dog. Phenomenal book.

Liz Dolan:

So great, right?

Zac:

Yeah, really great.

Liz Dolan:

Seeing the movie.

Zac:

Like, he seems like he represents himself as like the super hands off boss. Was he just like, go for it?

Liz Dolan:

Yes. Yes. You know, there were certain things. That's so interesting that you noticed that in the book, Sack, there were certain things that he cared a lot about.

Zac:

Right.

Liz Dolan:

But most things he was like, well, okay, that's like, I assigned that to you. Just go away and do that. Just don't. You know, I don't want to use bad language, but he would say, don't F it up. That's it. That was the whole brief.

Zac:

That was it. I mean, he hated.

Kim:

I love that.

Zac:

Right. For a long time, he was super against advertising for the.

Liz Dolan:

He just didn't believe it would work to create an emotional connection with sports that he believed in so much. So, you know. But, yeah, he was a good, good boss that way. Maybe. I feel like my parents were this way, too. We. We refer to it as benign neglect. You know, I mean, I don't think parents are allowed to be this way anymore, but our parents.

Kim:

But wish we could. Oh, I wish we could.

Liz Dolan:

I mean, they would let us do the craziest. Just craziest things and, you know, eight of you.

Zac:

How would they even keep track of all.

Liz Dolan:

That's Right.

Kim:

I know, but y'all, that was.

Liz Dolan:

I think.

Kim:

I don't know. They are my. You know, my mom and dad. I mean, I've just had to figure it out myself. Like, my parents worked. I was just. There's something to that.

Liz Dolan:

Yeah. I. I felt like the way. The way my parents were, like, as long as they didn't have to drive you there, then you could go do it.

Kim:

You could go to it.

Liz Dolan:

As long as you had your own transportation. So we could take the train. We lived an hour outside of New York City. We could take the train into New York when we were 12 and go wander around.

Kim:

I went to Chicago at 14 by myself. I flew. Took a tax. I was 14. I would die if. I would never send Blanton 15 to do that. Let me. And did they ever help you with your homework or anything? I mean, my parents were like, yeah, if you fail, you fail.

Kim:

If you're an idiot, you're an idiot.

Liz Dolan:

No, I. My parents are no longer with us. But if you asked my parents 10 years ago, like, what did Elizabeth major in college? They would have. No idea.

Kim:

They would have. Liz. I'm doing algebra three now. I'm doing. I'm learning fricking algebra three.

Liz Dolan:

Oh, my God.

Kim:

It's torture.

Liz Dolan:

I couldn't even do it when I was that age.

Kim:

I'm like, never mind. Oh, my God. I'm a total idiot. Okay, here we go. Why are you the least likely in your family to host Thanksgiving dinner? And there you go.

Liz Dolan:

Well, yes, I was always the person who was assigned to bring ice for Thanksgiving, Kim, you know, it was like that.

Kim:

No judgment. You gotta have ice, baby.

Liz Dolan:

You know, I was the single girl. Busy job. I always had a global job, so I was just away a lot. Like, I was not, you know, ever like, home to do. The domestic arts in general were just not really my area. But I have to say, during the pandemic, the one thing I accomplished is I taught myself how to cook. Kim, I will.

Kim:

Good for you.

Liz Dolan:

If you ever come visit me, I will make you.

Kim:

I'm coming.

Liz Dolan:

I will make you Ina Garten's roast chicken. And you will enjoy it. It's just a roast chicken.

Kim:

I'll be there. It doesn't matter. Roast chicken is an art. It's got to be moist. Okay. Who would you exchange bodies with in a Freaky Friday?

Liz Dolan:

I don't know. This summer, I watched a lot of hours of the Olympics. Kim.

Kim:

Oh, okay.

Liz Dolan:

When I see these athletes that can just do.

Kim:

It's a miracle.

Liz Dolan:

I know such amazing things, you know? Is it.

Kim:

Good answer.

Liz Dolan:

Katie Ledecky breaking more world records in the pool. Is it Simone Biles? I do a lot of work in the track and field area recently, and when you see runners like, you know, Gabby Thomas. Or just, like, I think the modern female athletes are just so strong and great at what they do and fearless. Yeah. So I don't know if I can pick one, but wouldn't it be. Can you imagine being, like, an Olympian? Wouldn't it be great?

Kim:

I cannot imagine it for myself because I'm the biggest klutz on the planet, but I wouldn't. That's the best answer to that question we have ever received.

Liz Dolan:

Oh, okay.

Zac:

That really is. Can I just say, I have a physique for Olympic curling? I think I could make a play at that.

Liz Dolan:

Okay. Yeah.

Kim:

Liz. On the next podcast, it's going to be called Know youw Limitations, and Zac is going to host that play.

Liz Dolan:

I really was thinking when I was watching all those, you know, very small sports in the Paris Olympics, like, okay, so the next. The next LA is the next Games. I live in Los Angeles.

Kim:

Oh, yeah.

Liz Dolan:

Is there a sport I could take up now and be good enough to actually compete in the LA Olympics? My answer was no. Even for the things that seemed. That seemed doable. But, you know, for a lot of people out, some of those things are not those sports that only have, like, 100 people in the whole world that play them.

Kim:

You could get hard. You could get on. You could get on if we started now. That's right. Okay, what would you spend a million dollars on yourself for if you had it right now? That's a great question. Because I could. I already got my answer.

Liz Dolan:

Really? A hard question.

Kim:

Oh, is it?

Liz Dolan:

I could do, like, the pampering lifestyle thing, like a house at the beach where, like, every morning I was getting up and looking at the ocean and walking my dog along the beach. That would be nice. I.

Kim:

You know, I say yes.

Liz Dolan:

Yeah, say, that's it. I like, what was that show? Was it Pretty Little Lies or something where they all had these great houses right on the ocean? I know they were a lot more than a million dollars, though, so.

Kim:

Well, I mean, it could be a little house. It could be, you know.

Liz Dolan:

Yes. Oh, yeah.

Kim:

I second that spend.

Liz Dolan:

It's just me and my dog. It can be. It could be a shack on the beach. As long as, like, it's the right beach. That would be. Okay.

Kim:

What beach? What beach?

Liz Dolan:

I don't know. Malibu. Because you want. You want a shack on the beach that. Then you have a lot of very beautiful people walking by by.

Kim:

Right, right. You can visit. Yeah, okay. Or.

Liz Dolan:

Or any. Any island anywhere. Fine.

Kim:

Turks and Caos is lovely.

Liz Dolan:

Oh, okay. I'll add it to my list of places I must go to.

Kim:

You must go. Okay, what was your last text message and who did you send it to?

Liz Dolan:

I believe it was to my sister, Lean.

Kim:

Okay.

Liz Dolan:

So she's my youngest sister, and you said, and at some point, can you teach me how to do a link tree? See, always trying to get on top.

Kim:

Of the technology things that tells me about who you are in the family. That's all I need to know. You're the go to.

Liz Dolan:

You're the go to because, you know. So the Listener show, the new podcast, I just launched it this morning. And then I was sort of scrambling around trying to figure out, well, what else do I need to do? And I realized that, like, in my Instagram bio, I need a link tree to, like, she does all the link trees in the family. So, yeah, that was my last. And there's. Yeah, there it is. There's. There's a picture of it.

Liz Dolan:

There I am.

Kim:

I love her. I wish my sister could do anything with technology. She was a good sister.

Liz Dolan:

So she immediately called me. She just. She didn't even text back. She just. It's nice when people actually call you, isn't it?

Kim:

I know. Sometimes that's.

Zac:

Sometimes a phone call, sometimes. Or 200 texts. That's the choice. A three minute phone call or 250 texts.

Liz Dolan:

Yeah.

Kim:

No.

Liz Dolan:

Okay. I'm in the three minute phone call world.

Kim:

Yeah, I'm y'all. I'm in the text world. Zac knows I'm in the text world. For someone who has an aversion to technology, I use it quite a bit. I use it quite a bit. Okay. If you could take a class taught by anyone in history, this is the best question for you right now. Where you are, Liz, who would it be and what would the class be called? Okay, yeah, biggie.

Kim:

It's a big question.

Liz Dolan:

Here's what. I never talk in school.

Kim:

Okay.

Liz Dolan:

Once I got out of high school, I was like, yeah, science, Just me and science. It's not a thing, right?

Kim:

Science can suck.

Liz Dolan:

Yeah, it really can. And I went to a college where we didn't have any distribution requirements, so I was not required to take any science classes, which I truly, truly, truly, you know, I regret.

Kim:

Yeah, yeah.

Zac:

The status were really low at Brown.

Liz Dolan:

Yes, I know. But we could just do whatever we wanted. I mean, that's why I liked it.

Kim:

Okay, Zac, Liz went to Brown University.

Zac:

I'm saying she's like, oh, yeah, we didn't have the science. She went to Brown, but it was.

Liz Dolan:

A free for all and. Which that's what I signed up for.

Zac:

But so it was the 70s though, right?

Liz Dolan:

So it was the 70s. Yeah, it was so.

Kim:

Oh, my God.

Liz Dolan:

Okay, so I've already told you, I'm a water person. I'm a beach person. I am.

Kim:

Yes. Yes.

Liz Dolan:

I would like to take a course about the oceans from Jacques Cousteau.

Kim:

Can I do that with you on. Yes. Can I do it with you? Okay.

Liz Dolan:

I mean, you take all of the oceans.

Zac:

That's it.

Kim:

Will you take all my tests for me? Can we cheat or use AI?

Liz Dolan:

Can we do that? AI? Yeah. Yes. Right.

Kim:

Okay.

Liz Dolan:

You don't have to take the exams in this school. This is just. God, I swear something like that to just really.

Kim:

That was a brilliant.

Liz Dolan:

Get out there on into the planet, understand the science of what's happening.

Kim:

It's brilliant.

Liz Dolan:

Enjoy it. Like, yeah, I would like that.

Kim:

Appreciate it. Appreciate it.

Liz Dolan:

Yes. Yeah.

Kim:

Okay.

Liz Dolan:

Participate in it.

Kim:

Here is something so frivolous. Who is your celebrity crush?

Liz Dolan:

You know, I was just talking to someone about this last night at dinner.

Kim:

Of course this is.

Liz Dolan:

Okay. This is going to be a sad answer.

Kim:

No, it's not.

Liz Dolan:

I am still surprised how terrible I feel about the death of Matthew Perry. Like, I don't know why.

Kim:

I agree, I agree with you. Because I think it was senseless. I think it was totally senseless.

Liz Dolan:

Yes. I like it still. It breaks my heart.

Kim:

Mine, too.

Liz Dolan:

And I read his autobiography, and in the book he says, by the time you read this, I might be dead. He was just. He was in manifesting such a grip of his addiction that even every time he said, okay, I. You know, like, I'm clean for now, he knew that. That. That might not be foreign. So when he actually did die, I just felt like, oh, my God. It really got him.

Liz Dolan:

He kept trying and trying and trying and trying and trying. So that's not your average celebrity crush. But I just felt. I was surprised. I was surprised how deeply I felt that. Because, I mean, just. What a guy, right?

Kim:

Well, he was my favorite guy friend. Do you know what I'm saying?

Liz Dolan:

Yes.

Kim:

He was goofy. He was fun. Yeah, I agree with you.

Liz Dolan:

Now, who's the guy? He's everyone's new favorite celebrity crush. The guy that was in Twister this summer. What's his name?

Zac:

Oh, yeah. Zac. Oh, yeah.

Liz Dolan:

Everybody loves him. And I do, too. Zac. I don't care. It doesn't have to be original.

Kim:

Is it. Is it purely physical? Like, you just think he's hot?

Liz Dolan:

Oh, yeah. Yes. Right. Yes.

Kim:

And.

Liz Dolan:

But he's got kind of the draw. And he. He seems like an easygoing guy, but super sexy. Yeah.

Kim:

Unassuming Glen Powell.

Liz Dolan:

Yeah.

Kim:

Okay. Okay. What is your favorite junk food? Both salty and sweet.

Liz Dolan:

When I go to the movies.

Kim:

Okay.

Liz Dolan:

It's still. It's still Raisinets for me. So that's, you know. I know that was not your question. Just movie food. But.

Kim:

No, but it was good. That's a good one. That's a good junk food. That's good.

Liz Dolan:

I would never eat, like, Raisinets in real life, but for some reason, it. Right.

Kim:

It's only for movies.

Liz Dolan:

It's only for movies.

Kim:

Okay. What's your salty.

Liz Dolan:

Does do nachos count as junk food?

Kim:

100%.

Liz Dolan:

Okay. Yes. I love nachos. Now.

Kim:

Do you like nachos? Okay. Okay. I'm sorry. Because I'm. I love food, clearly. Is. Is it the cheap cheese, like the Velveeta? Like, cheese is probably not cheese. Okay.

Liz Dolan:

Yes. So you.

Kim:

You just like it? Just the down and dirty. Okay.

Liz Dolan:

The down and dirty cheese and the. The jalapeno.

Kim:

Okay. So you want the cake? Okay. Okay.

Liz Dolan:

Yeah. So. And again, it's not like I make that a lot for myself, but when you have it, it's just so delicious. It's comfort.

Kim:

I know.

Liz Dolan:

That's.

Kim:

Okay. So let me just say this to you one last rapid fire. When it comes to the Lizness School. What do you want people to take away from this platform?

Liz Dolan:

I want people to take away that it's always worth thinking about all of the choices you are making in your life. Like we said at the beginning, it's never too late to say, you know what? I think for me now, this is the path, not that and how you explore that. I mean, I'm doing it in my own way, which is why I'm going to kind of live it out loud on Lisma School. I'm going to try a bunch of things I think it'll be fun to be like with undergraduates. How is that going to change my life? I think it probably will, right?

Kim:

It will.

Liz Dolan:

Yeah. So. So that's. So that's what it is for me. Like, I'm trying to explore all kinds of things because it's never too late to take a different path, to do something differently, to get rid of nine out of the 10 things you're doing and just do the one, whatever it is for you. But taking a thoughtful approach to that is. Thoughtful, fun approach to that is.

Kim:

I love it. Okay, well, y'all can find Liz on Instagram at Satellite Sister Liz and Facebook at Liz Dolan. And make sure you subscribe to Liz's new podcast. All you got to do is go search your favorite podcast platform for Lizness. That's Liz N E S S School. And you can also follow Lizness School on Instagram at Lizness School. Thank you for being here, girl. I'm telling you, you are one of a kind, absolute.

Kim:

I absolutely adore you.

Liz Dolan:

I'm just so glad we could finally do this. You're the best.

Kim:

Me too. You are the best, girl.

Liz Dolan:

Thank you, Zac.

Kim:

You are the best.

Zac:

We only rescheduled this, like, 16 times.

Liz Dolan:

We finally made it happen, and it was just as great as we wanted it to be.

Kim:

Yeah. Oh, it was even better. Liz, you are such a force. You are seriously noisy.

Liz Dolan:

Okay, well, back at you. Thank you. That's why I'm here.

Kim:

Keep us posted. I'm gonna go follow you right now. You're unassuming. You are.

Liz Dolan:

You're.

Kim:

You, you're. But you have got so much wisdom, sis.

Liz Dolan:

Did you just say Lisdom? Oh, hey, O. I'm immediately trademarking that.

Zac:

You're in your new Stanford apartment, right?

Liz Dolan:

Yes, I am living in a little student apartment in Palo Alto, California. I had to rearrange a few things so you weren't looking at my bed, my kitchen, and my desk all at the same time.

Kim:

Liz, I'M technologically like a kindergartner, so

Kim:

The Kim Gravel show is produced and edited by Zac Miller at Uncommon Audio. Our associate producer is Kathleen Grant from the Brunette Exec. Production help from  Emily Bredin and Sara Noto. Our cover art is designed by Sanaz Huber at Memarian Creative. Our show is edited by Mike Kligerman. Our guest intros are performed by Roxy Reese. Our guest booking is done by Central Talent Booking. And I want to give a special thank you to the entire team at QVC and thanks to you for making this community so strong. Listen, tell somebody about the show and leave us a five star review. And make sure you're following The Kim Gravel Show on your podcast app so we can keep growing this love who you are message together. I can't do this without you. So thank you so much for listening. And y'all, I love you with everything I got.